[Odal3]

Do you mean speaker wire? I used what I had home - think it is 14. My soldering skills are not the best so I struggled a bit to get them stick.

[TXATC]

Yeah, the speaker wire. I was thinking of 16 because my soldering skills are 15 years rusty. I just didn't want to go too small and affect the signal to the exciters.

[OB_Newbie]

Alright - prepared another board and finally had a chance to listen to the Ultras and compare them to the Thrusters. My initial impression was better clarity at the expense of the bass. The boards were really large 2.5' x 5' at a 1/4 " thickness so it might have been too heavy for the Ultras (final boards will be smaller), but then on the other hand I have two subs in the room so the boards doesn't need to go down that low. More impressions to come later this week.

Spot on Odal... the clarity of the Ultra is amazing.  Just seconds into my first listening session that was very evident.  After the first Ultra failed I listened to a Thruster in the left and the Ultra on the right channel and could teally hear the difference with the Ultra being more sensitive detail and clarity.  Have to think it's more evident on XPS and other lighter materials.  Didn't notice the low freq. deficiencies so wonder if it's associated with a heavier panel material and more compliant exciter like the Ultra?!?!

How are they sounding now that they are broken in? 

[Odal3]

Unfortunately I have to report that the Ultra exciters I got are a no go for heavier panels. It plays nice at the upper end, but as soon as there are some low bass notes I hear the knocking sound. It doesnt need to be very loud for me to hear it. It sound like someone is tapping a screwdriver hard against something. I believe it is the exciter hitting the surrounding enclosure on the inside. The thruster exciter moves as a unit (more mass to move) but the Ultras moves somewhat more freely due to the  flexible (sticky) attachment between exciter and housing. If I hold the plastic exciter housing steady, the knocking sound dissapper. Not sure if I just got a bad unit, but I'm kind of thinking it is the result of the design. On lighter boards I can definetely see the advantage of the Ultras. Haven't tried it yet.

I'm  wondering if even more speed and clarity can be achieved by removing the housing all together. As reported with other exciters on the thread many got better result when removing them such as the ones with three or four froglegs. But that would maybe make it even worse on heavier panels.

[Odal3]

The knocking sound mystery is solved. I took off the exciter from the panel and looked at it from the back. The mounting ring (the ring that will attach the exciter to the panel) is attached to three plastic "C-shaped" legs that wraps around about a 1/4" from the mounting ring. The legs are attached to the exciter on one end and the housing on the other. When the legs flex excessively during low notes it bottoms out so the mounting ring hits the corner of leg where it attaches to the housing. If you take the exciter and push carefully on the mounting ring you may see what I mean. When mounted on heavy boards the exciters move more.

The solution to the problem would be to trim the part of the plastic legs that hits the mounting ring. I was tempted to do it but wasn't sure I would be able to cut it off without ruining the whole housing. I want to try the Ultras out on a thicker XPS board first so that will need to wait.

Instead I tried two thrusters on one board. That was perhaps a bit much and didn't produce clean hf, so I moved it over to my other board so I'm now playing two thruster on large boards for the first time. No knocking so I'm happy, but I really need to learn how to put a cross-over together.

[TXATC]

Can I get a Hellelujah!? I have seen the light my brethren and it is GOOD!

Seriously though. I "finished" up one of my panels this morning. I did a quick wire up job and set it to rest on top of my sub. I hooked it up to the right main just so I could hear the difference between the old HTiB speakers and I was amazed!

The panel itself looks like crap but it sounds extremely nice. I normally had to turn the avr to 30ish to get the sound out. With this thing I had it set on 13. I played a few movies just to see what I could hear.
1. Fast 6- When the cars are coming off of the elevator I could hear the individual pops of the exhaust. Like the car was driving in from stage right.
2. Act of Valor- When the River Rat comes in and unloads with the Dylan........WOOOOOOOWWWW! Before it was just a low rumble, now I can hear the gun spinning, the brass hitting the deck and when they open up with the other gun I swear I can hear the bolt cycling.

In short, the clarity is astounding for movies, and this is just propped up against the wall with nothing insulating front the wall or sub. I was worried that they would not go low enough but the small non powered sub was easily enough to meet it.

The wife walked in as I was testing and said the pnel sounded really good. Clearer than what we had and she was happy with what we had.

The panel is 22x35.5 coated 1 time on each side it a 1:1 mixture of titebond3 and water. (I tried to color it with water soluble craft paint the Mrs. had lying around mixed in, don't do this, the paint left little chunks all over the panel which is why the panel looks like crap)

The single XPS pink panther board more than overpowers the other speakers and now I am excited to fix up the others.
Just a quick update to let yall know what I think. When I get the others done I'll post more!

[Odal3]

 

Sounds like we have another believer joining the club!!! I had almost the exact same feeling myself when I first heard it properly mounted on a board, and actually still do evertime I turn it on.

Update on the Ultras and the knocking. It looks like both Ultras I have do not have enough space between the magnet/mounting ring and legs. Not sure if these is an assembly error if it is per the design tolerances. One of the exciters looks like it is slighly tilted in the way it is assembled - it is "sunken -in " more where the sticky stuff is.

Anyways, as I mentiond before, if not playing them full-range or on lighter/smaller boards it will likely be OK (unless you have one "sunken-in" that makes the exciter not sitting straight in the plastic housing.)

BTW: Had a thruster dead on arrival - the wire attaching the coil to the speaker tabs was broken-off. Hope to be able to return it.

[Odal3]

 

Sounds like we have another believer joining the club!!! I had almost the exact same feeling myself when I first heard it properly mounted on a board, and actually still do evertime I turn it on.

Update on the Ultras and the knocking. It looks like both Ultras I have do not have enough space between the magnet/mounting ring and legs. Not sure if this is an assembly error for the ones I have or if it is per the actual design. One of the exciters looks like it is slighly tilted in the way it is assembled - it is "sunken -in " more where the sticky stuff is.

Anyways, as I mentiond before, if not playing them full-range or on lighter/smaller boards it will likely be OK (unless you have one "sunken-in" that makes the exciter not sitting straight in the plastic housing.) Tried to buy a thicker XPS board today, but they were out of stock.

BTW: Had a thruster dead on arrival - the wire attaching the coil to the speaker tabs was broken-off. Hope to be able to return it.

[OB_Newbie]

Can I get a Hellelujah!? I have seen the light my brethren and it is GOOD!

Seriously though. I "finished" up one of my panels this morning. I did a quick wire up job and set it to rest on top of my sub. I hooked it up to the right main just so I could hear the difference between the old HTiB speakers and I was amazed!

The panel itself looks like crap but it sounds extremely nice. I normally had to turn the avr to 30ish to get the sound out. With this thing I had it set on 13. I played a few movies just to see what I could hear.
1. Fast 6- When the cars are coming off of the elevator I could hear the individual pops of the exhaust. Like the car was driving in from stage right.
2. Act of Valor- When the River Rat comes in and unloads with the Dylan........WOOOOOOOWWWW! Before it was just a low rumble, now I can hear the gun spinning, the brass hitting the deck and when they open up with the other gun I swear I can hear the bolt cycling.

In short, the clarity is astounding for movies, and this is just propped up against the wall with nothing insulating front the wall or sub. I was worried that they would not go low enough but the small non powered sub was easily enough to meet it.

The wife walked in as I was testing and said the pnel sounded really good. Clearer than what we had and she was happy with what we had.

The panel is 22x35.5 coated 1 time on each side it a 1:1 mixture of titebond3 and water. (I tried to color it with water soluble craft paint the Mrs. had lying around mixed in, don't do this, the paint left little chunks all over the panel which is why the panel looks like crap)

The single XPS pink panther board more than overpowers the other speakers and now I am excited to fix up the others.
Just a quick update to let yall know what I think. When I get the others done I'll post more!

Hellelujah brother!!!  Thanks for the update... and they only get better with time and more listening!!   Like Odal said... welcome to the club man!!!

Keep us updated as you progress.  Can't remember if I mentioned... but black ink added to water:glue treatment will do the job to turn the lovely pink panels black.  Its been reported that 3 treatments will do the trick.  3 water:glue treatments is a bit more that I typically do but I suppose you could just add the ink to water and apply a coat or 2 to be certain the panel is a solid black (if that is your goal).

Been so busy lately but still check in now and then but not posting much these days.  In any event... hope everyone is doing well and life is good by you!!     

[OB_Newbie]

Sounds like we have another believer joining the club!!! I had almost the exact same feeling myself when I first heard it properly mounted on a board, and actually still do evertime I turn it on.

Update on the Ultras and the knocking. It looks like both Ultras I have do not have enough space between the magnet/mounting ring and legs. Not sure if this is an assembly error for the ones I have or if it is per the actual design. One of the exciters looks like it is slighly tilted in the way it is assembled - it is "sunken -in " more where the sticky stuff is.

Anyways, as I mentiond before, if not playing them full-range or on lighter/smaller boards it will likely be OK (unless you have one "sunken-in" that makes the exciter not sitting straight in the plastic housing.) Tried to buy a thicker XPS board today, but they were out of stock.

BTW: Had a thruster dead on arrival - the wire attaching the coil to the speaker tabs was broken-off. Hope to be able to return it.

Hey Odal!
You are spot on about the Ultra's... I see the same issue.   Can really see how it would really be an issue with heavier ply.  On XPS its much better behaved but I also cut low freq. below 40Hz at 24db so I don't get knocking but I will say that it does happen rarely when I crank it up and it has a lot of low frequencies. 

Yeah... as much as I like the Thurster's bullet proof construction (steel spider and top quality construction) and they do sound notably better the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4... but dang, I have to say that the Ultra's still have my complete love and attention on XPS.  They do look cheap, are fragile but they sure do sound fantastic on XPS (and other lighter materials I'm sure). 

Hmmm... thinking... probably the best (quickest anyway) mod to remove the knock would be to place a small divot with a Dremel to the plastic ring that mounts the exciter to the panel.  There is only a little bit of overlap where the plastic mounting ring makes contact with the plastic spider so just a little touch should do the trick.  Its not a problem typically but now that I think about it... while I don't hear the loud noise you mention often I have to think that it still makes smaller, less noticeable contacts that may detract from the sound quality?!?  Now I will have to try this... probably a small improvement but has to be an improvement either way to make them even better.      
     

[TXATC]

Yall had previously suggested the ink, I just used what I had around the house. I think I'll try to pick some up to see how that works. The Mrs. is chomping at the bit for me to finish the rest now 
 
Ran a few more movies last night and she said" Hurry up and finish the rest! Every other speaker sounds muffled and it's driving me crazy!"

Did we ever get a definitive yea or nay on using velcro to mount?
I was going to use tensioned 95 paracord but I can't find a way to secure any hook/eye to the panel reliably. I was thinking L brackets top and bottom centered with velcro and adhesive to attach the panels?

As I was perusing the 3m website I also notice a different product of theirs, I think it's called double tite or something like that. It is like velcro except it uses mushroom head shaped protrusions to lock together instead of hook and loop. Stated that it had 5x more shear strength than velcro. Just wondering.

Thanks all
Semper Fi

[irishpatrick33]

Yeah... as much as I like the Thurster's bullet proof construction (steel spider and top quality construction) and they do sound notably better the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4... but dang, I have to say that the Ultra's still have my complete love and attention on XPS.  They do look cheap, are fragile but they sure do sound fantastic on XPS (and other lighter materials I'm sure).

Is this really the consensus? I'm shocked the puck design's sound quality is preferred over the DAEX25SHF-4 or the DAEX30HESF-4.

I would be curious to know how the Elac driver (which JMC soundboard uses) sound in comparison... or the Visatons.

[Odal3]

I was actually looking at them online the other day. Have you had a chance to try them. It's hard to tell the diff from the descriptions on the PE or Dayton's webpage.

[caretaker]

Hi all,
new guy in town.
I' m from Slovenia, currently staying in Indianapolis.
English is not my first language so please,...
I have been following this toppic for a long time and finally decided to participate in it.
Recently I bought ten of DAEX30HESF-4 exciters. My plan was to use two of them for experimenting on different panels and then on a panel with best results put four exciters on each panel.
But what I have found out...these exciters are loud!!!!
Anybody has any experience with these exciters?
Should I stay with one exciter per panel or should I go for four per panel.
I'm afraid of losing heights due to the interference between exciters.

Panels are made of CG...109cm x 65cm...golden cut.
Experimental, not final product.

[OB_Newbie]

Is this really the consensus? I'm shocked the puck design's sound quality is preferred over the DAEX25SHF-4 or the DAEX30HESF-4.

I would be curious to know how the Elac driver (which JMC soundboard uses) sound in comparison... or the Visatons.

I too have had my eye on the DAEX30HESF-4.  Should work fine free mounted so that is attractive to me... not to mention they are on sale!!      The DAEX25SHF-4 on the other hand is pretty heavy so will need support and considering the high inductance and solid mounting plate it will very likely impact high freq response... enough that I really don't feel compelled to trying a pair. 

Have tried the DAEX58FP which I beleive are made by Visaton.  Measured fine but did not sound good to my ears... at least on XPS... a lack of panel magic.  The DAEX25FHE-4 easily out performed it and popped the DAEX58FP off the panels and off to eBay went the remaining 6 Visaton pucks.  The large mounting plate is the responsible party for the lackluster performance.

The Thrusters got a lot of attention on this thread and was ordered after my positive expireince with the cheap Dayton DAEX25FHE-4.  Ziggy claimed them to be "game changers" and have to say they did sound very, very good and could have lived with them forever... my ears were very happy indeed.  It was on a whim that I tried the Ultras... the really low Fs caught my attention so thought I'd give them a try.  Sure glad I did... a few seconds in it was clear that the clarity and general sound quality was improved.  Even listening to 1 Ultra and 1 Thruster after my first Ultra failed I could clearly notice that the Ultra was a honest improvement.

I'm sure that there are other very worthy exciters and will continue to try others!  But if the Thrusters are game changers I can certainly report that the Ultras are a step above in sound quality on light-weight materials like XPS/EPS.  But as Odal has reported, the design is not as suitable for heavier panels such as ply.  The Ultras compliant design (plastic spiders in the front and soft mounting of motor to outter right produces the more compiant and low Fs.  This all translates into a quieter and more detailed panel with improved clarity.  Its a shame that the reliability and ruggedness is lacking.  Still, I ordered 8 so that I have spares around in case one fails.... they just sound too nice fellas!
     

[OB_Newbie]

Hi all,
new guy in town.
I' m from Slovenia, currently staying in Indianapolis.
English is not my first language so please,...
I have been following this toppic for a long time and finally decided to participate in it.
Recently I bought ten of DAEX30HESF-4 exciters. My plan was to use two of them for experimenting on different panels and then on a panel with best results put four exciters on each panel.
But what I have found out...these exciters are loud!!!!
Anybody has any experience with these exciters?
Should I stay with one exciter per panel or should I go for four per panel.
I'm afraid of losing heights due to the interference between exciters.

Panels are made of CG...109cm x 65cm...golden cut.
Experimental, not final product.

Welcome CT...  looks like a really nice start to DML panel magic!!  What is the panel material used?  How do they sound?

[caretaker]

Thanks OB.

Material is CC and not CG as I've written in previous post...sorry.
The sound?...
Oh my,....vocals are to die for, acoustic instruments amazing !!!
Only one condition; it has to be good recording.
Heights; can tell, doesn't go up to 20.000kHz, but it's not really noticeable in listening.
Bass: goes deep enough to give good foundation for overall listening experience.

Even if it sounds much better allready now than most conventional speakers, there is gonna be a lot of elaborating when I'll be back home.

[caretaker]

It's funny when you tell your friends that you're gonna make speakers out of two sheets of CC and they all laugh at you, but after 2 sec. of music they all with wide eyes open start to laugh with you.

[Odal3]

Welcome aboard! Great to see more people from Indianapolis posting here.

You probably only need to consider putting multiple exciters on if not loud enough or if putting on large and heavy boards and one by itself is not strong enough to move it. A lot of people did this with the older low power exciters but with the newer more powerful exciters like the one you have it probably be good enough with one per panel.

[caretaker]

Thank you Odal3 for welcome me and for the advice.
You're right, in past I had two exciters per panel (don't know the model anymore), the were very good sounding exciters but not even close as loud as these ones.

Did anyone try using bassshaker mounted on chair instead of subwoofer for LF?