AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 12:36 am

Title: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 12:36 am
Yep, looks like a very new project will soon be ready for prime time.  :thumb:

Follow along in this thread, it is coming in bits and pieces...
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HT cOz on 19 Sep 2012, 01:21 am
Ok Danny,

You can't make a post like this with no details  :duh: :duh: :duh:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 01:28 am
Yeah, this year we are going over the top man! :dance:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jeffh on 19 Sep 2012, 01:42 am
 :hyper: tell us please....
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HT cOz on 19 Sep 2012, 01:47 am
It could be anything from a super wave guide to total open baffle line sources. We need pics!!!  About the only guarantee is that the woofers are servo driven.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HAL on 19 Sep 2012, 01:47 am
 :drool:  :drool:  :drool:  :drool:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: SoCalWJS on 19 Sep 2012, 01:53 am
Yeah, this year we are going over the top man! :dance:

.....tease  :nono:


 :green:

So, more than one type of speaker?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 02:39 am
I have been designing a new product line for a new company. I dropped a hint about that already.

The new company is called Serenity Acoustics. And by new I mean totally new, not a peep, no talk, no publicity, still getting moving.

I have designed a lot of product lines before, but this part for me is a bit new though. I typically get a royalty that is some sort of percentage of sales for my design work. This time I took a small percentage of the company.  :green:  And I get say so about the whole product line. Whatever I decide.... And there are designs from a 93db mini-monitor that will play down to a -3db of 20Hz.  :thumb:  To a full open baffle line source with a full line of servo subs.   :thumb:   :thumb:

The first finished pair will debut at RMAF. It is one of the middle sized models. And I get to be the front guy at the shows for Serenity Acoustics.  :D

So in a way I am not even getting to show a GR Research product in my own room.

Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: S Clark on 19 Sep 2012, 02:46 am
Very interesting indeed!  Pretty dang high sensitivity from a mini monitor.  Tell us more about the model you'll be showing.

Scott
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: persisting1 on 19 Sep 2012, 02:50 am
Not sure if you've mentioned this, but will DIY kits be available for the Serenity speakers?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 02:50 am
Very interesting indeed!  Pretty dang high sensitivity from a mini monitor.  Tell us more about the model you'll be showing.

Scott

Think Super-V on steroids...  :P
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 02:52 am
Not sure if you've mentioned this, but will DIY kits be available for the Serenity speakers?

Nope, these are fully assembled speakers with fairly complex cabinets.

I do have some new really serious kits in the works though. That new X-optima is going to be really good, and the X-Otica is going to be really awesome.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: SoCalWJS on 19 Sep 2012, 03:35 am
Woo Hoo!!!

 :hyper:


...errrrrr, I mean: CR@P!! :banghead:

Fully assembled??? Probably takes them out of my price range.  :bawl:

OK then - how long before the next generation of GR shows itself?

Wait a minute - how can you even call your room at RMAF the GR Research if there's no GR Research there????   :green:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jn316 on 19 Sep 2012, 03:38 am
Think Super-V on steroids...  :P

My man cave is calling for them. Can't wait to see/hear them in a little over three weeks!   :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jcotner on 19 Sep 2012, 03:50 am
I started a thread a while back and Danny provided quite a bit of detail about the
Serinity speakers then. Might be worth a re-read.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106920.0

BTW I don't think I ever told the general population here I bought Danny's personal
pair of Diluceos, so I'm not shopping anymore. But of course the new speakers
look very interesting.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: rockdrummer on 19 Sep 2012, 05:45 am
Congratulations Danny.  Sounds like a promising business venture.  Can't wait to see the new kits from GR-Research!

Ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: gregfisk on 19 Sep 2012, 06:17 am
Quote
How about an MTM design in a sealed box with a side loaded 12" servo sub in the same cabinet? 


Danny, how does this speaker fit into your new line of GR Research speakers? Is this in addition to your X series offerings and where will it fall in your line of speakers?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Early B. on 19 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm
I have been designing a new product line for a new company. I dropped a hint about that already.

The new company is called Serenity Acoustics. And by new I mean totally new, not a peep, no talk, no publicity, still getting moving.

It appears that Serenity Acoustics will be targeted to a high end clientele, so we may be drooling over products that we can't afford. Danny -- are you pulling a Romney on us??? Please sir -- don't turn your back on the poor and disenfranchised audiophile. We pay our taxes.  :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Sep 2012, 12:28 pm
It appears that Serenity Acoustics will be targeted to a high end clientele, so we may be drooling over products that we can't afford. Danny -- are you pulling a Romney on us??? Please sir -- don't turn your back on the poor and disenfranchised audiophile. We pay our taxes.  :lol:

Politics are NOT allowed on this site.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=about;area=posting-guidelines
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jparkhur on 19 Sep 2012, 12:40 pm
GFisk,  Danny had an older version with what would be a N3S in the top sealed and a side loaded 12 with the servo amp on back.  I have though of making one of these, but the weight to ship would be big..   heavy...  Something like this would work with Danny's kits with little mods..(http://[img]http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67962)
[/img]

Go forward one post... sorry..
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jparkhur on 19 Sep 2012, 12:40 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67964)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: SoCalWJS on 19 Sep 2012, 02:49 pm
It appears that Serenity Acoustics will be targeted to a high end clientele, so we may be drooling over products that we can't afford. Danny -- are you pulling a Romney on us??? Please sir -- don't turn your back on the poor and disenfranchised audiophile. We pay our taxes.  :lol:
Hey, if they're too much money, but you really want them, maybe you can ask the other Forum members to "redistribute" a pair your way.  :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 02:53 pm
Hey, if they're too much money, but you really want them, maybe you can ask the other Forum members to "redistribute" a pair your way.  :lol:

Okay, that's funny, but you guys are treading across a fine line. Please back away from the line. Everything is fine here. Move along now...
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jparkhur on 19 Sep 2012, 02:53 pm
I am currently reading Animal Farm and 1984...  But I really just want to know more about Danny's new designs... . Keep focus Comrades, keep focus Comrades... subs, drivers and new speakers for Xmas... or the holiday season..or just because....survival of the fittest speaker...  No line here....  Just building speakers and listening to great cd's and 8 Tracks.. 

Danny- will Serenity have its first coming out party at RMAF
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:03 pm
Quote
Danny- will Serenity have its first coming out party at RMAF

Yes!

Want to see some pics anyone?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jparkhur on 19 Sep 2012, 03:07 pm
send me pictures... i have to see.... i want more speakers to put in my basement... i only have 12 pairs... i need more to look at and try... please send pics... NOW
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:15 pm
How is this?

(http://gr-research.com/pics/Super71.jpg)

(http://gr-research.com/pics/Super72.jpg)

Want to see whats inside?  :D
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: ebag4 on 19 Sep 2012, 03:15 pm
YES!!!
From the location of that photo it appears Ruben has already seen what's inside. 

How about it Ruben, what about the sound??
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:18 pm
The lower section still gets line with No Rez, but.... you get the idea.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/s76.jpg)

How about a little closer up?

(http://gr-research.com/pics/s77.jpg)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: ebag4 on 19 Sep 2012, 03:19 pm
Quote
WOW!!!  How about a rear view?

Okay...

(http://gr-research.com/pics/s74.jpg)

Drivers are physically in line and acoustically in phase front to back.

How about a top down view?

(http://gr-research.com/pics/s73.jpg)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:19 pm
Okay, a little closer on the front.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/s72.jpg)

Yes that is a small wave guide around the tweeter. It helps the tweeter reach a little lower and helps maintain an even and more controlled dispersion.

That is also a custom Neo 3 designed for this application.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:25 pm
YES!!!
From the location of that photo it appears Ruben has already seen what's inside. 

How about it Ruben, what about the sound??

Yes, Ruben built the cabinets, but he has not heard them yet.  :lol:  Hey, Ruben does the best work. So why not.

So yes, these are American made speakers. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:28 pm
This seven driver design pays a little homage to an old but impressive loudspeaker kit sold back in the late 70's by Sound Lab by carrying on its name.

Gentlemen meet the Super-7.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HAL on 19 Sep 2012, 03:34 pm
Oh Baby!  :D

Can't wait to hear these at RMAF!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 03:36 pm
And speaking of how it sounds....

Remember a few years back when I introduced the Super-V and made a bold statement that with the open baffle servo controlled subs of the Super-V we would have the best sounding bass response of any room at the show. Price no object, best sounding bass at the show. And we did. Many came by to see and hear for themselves. And no one even challenged the claim.

This year that aspect will be even better.

And I will go further out on a limb and say that I bet our room will have the best sounding mid-range of any room at the show. And the highs for that matter will be right with it.

These Neo 10's really raise the bar. With these drivers in an open baffle there is nothing really like it. Super fast, detailed, smooth, clean... all over the top.

I have never heard a speaker like these. Nothing that I know of is this good top to bottom. And I am not saying this to hype it. I am saying it because it's true and I challenge everyone to come see (or hear) if that claim is valid.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Outofthewoods on 19 Sep 2012, 03:38 pm
Yep. My first listen will be at the show!  :thumb:

BTW, the pictures do not do these things justice! The proportions are distorted and the pearl white doesn't show it's true brilliance.

I'll be sure to do a better job with the pics on the next run.

Best,

Ruben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: ebag4 on 19 Sep 2012, 03:42 pm
Too cool!  How about some specs?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: S Clark on 19 Sep 2012, 03:52 pm
Wow. Now that's a statement speaker! :o
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 04:11 pm
Ruben is correct. These look MUCH better in person. The camera is just not catching the look of this pearl paint.

Too cool!  How about some specs?

How about 96db sensitivity.

And there is no inductive rise. The impedance is a pure resistive load. These speakers also come with an inline RCA filter (first order filter) to remove the lows from the Neo 10's. So there are no passive high pass parts in the crossover for the Neo 10's. So the speakers are an 8 ohm load and has no current demand on the customers amplifier. So you can drive these baby's with anything.

And of course the dual servo subs play flat to 20Hz and are -3db down in the teens.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: rockdrummer on 19 Sep 2012, 04:11 pm
I have goosebumps!  I'm slowly getting close to buying a big kit from danny.  This makes it really exciting!
ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: srclose on 19 Sep 2012, 04:12 pm
Quote
What about sensitivity?  Are the subs and amps the same as in the Super V?  That combination should be a killer!

Stephen

96db man!  :thumb:  Just one db down from your Super-V's, and the same bottom end as your Super-V's.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 04:14 pm
And some of you are thinking, how do those Neo 10's work on their side? Two of them together like that make a 10" square just as if they were a single woofer. They don't play up high enough to have interference effects. It's just like having a pair of mid-bass drivers in a typical MTM design. So its like a MTM design with 10 woofers.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jn316 on 19 Sep 2012, 04:20 pm
Count me in as super-excited!  :hyper:

You da man, Danny
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: rockdrummer on 19 Sep 2012, 04:30 pm
Already wondering how I'm going to build it with the tools I have.  hmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: srclose on 19 Sep 2012, 04:31 pm
Any guess as to the lowest power amp?  What kind of load will these present?  Tube friendly below 5W per channel?

Stephen
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: rockdrummer on 19 Sep 2012, 04:32 pm
I assume this is a GR product.  Not a serenity product, right?
b
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jparkhur on 19 Sep 2012, 04:32 pm
>>>>> not sure if this is one of those that will be a kit?   Danny?  This is Danny's other company association thus I am cautiously assuming that this is built only... Now, that said, I am sure Danny will provide some type of Neo 10 build of his own for kit sale?????

JP
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: ebag4 on 19 Sep 2012, 04:35 pm
I hope he figures a way to make this a kit.  I am already converting my V1s in my mind!!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 04:42 pm
Guys, see this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109918.msg1133271#msg1133271

These will not be available as kits.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: ebag4 on 19 Sep 2012, 04:46 pm
Guys, see this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=109918.msg1133271#msg1133271

These will not be available as kits.
Bummer, Oh well, I guess I will have to limp along with my V1s :lol:.  Any plans for a narrower version of this speaker using the 8" servo units?

Also wondering, were the 4 BG Neo 10 panels used to increase sensitivity?  Curious why 4 were used as opposed to 2.  Looking at the Neo 3 and Neo 10 specs the efficiency appeared to be very close when measured as singles, with the 2 Neo 10 panels in that close proximity I assume there is an increase in sensitivity of 3(?)dB.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Sep 2012, 04:55 pm
These will not be available as kits.
Price?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: richidoo on 19 Sep 2012, 04:56 pm
That is a clever design! Congrats.  I have only heard the tweeter in a BG floorstander speaker, it sounds nice. Never heard the 10".  The CNC work on the baffle and frame is beautiful!

They don't play up high enough to have interference effects.

Thanks for mentioning that. My first reaction was concern about vertical lobing, but thinking about it should not be a problem, if as you say they don't play high enough. I'm sure they play high enough for the top Neo10 to interfere with the bottom Neo10, but the inner drivers will lessen the effect by filling the nulls in. Am I far off?

How is the distortion of Neo10 at high SPL? Of course sharing 4 reduces the distortion. But can they play really loud classical music (low frequency brassy dissonance) like a high end 4 way cone speaker - without breaking up, hardening tone, or dynamically compressing? These look promising! I look forward to learning the msrp.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Outofthewoods on 19 Sep 2012, 05:21 pm
The CNC work on the baffle and frame is beautiful!

Thanks richidoo, but that was all done by hand. :D

CNC will be used from here on out though.

Best,

Ruben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: richidoo on 19 Sep 2012, 05:27 pm
Wow... you got some skills brother!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 05:27 pm
Quote
Any plans for a narrower version of this speaker using the 8" servo units?

There is a smaller version with a single Neo 10, one Neo 3, and three 8" servo subs all on an open baffle. 93db sensitivity.

Quote
Also wondering, were the 4 BG Neo 10 panels used to increase sensitivity?  Curious why 4 were used as opposed to 2.

Two units can only be wired in series or in parallel. So the impedance would be either 16 ohms or 4 ohms. 4 ohms doesn't make them tube amp friendly. Four of them in series parallel wiring gets them back to 8 ohms and increases sensitivity to 96db.  Sharing the load with that many Neo 10's also reduces their work load to 1/4 that of a single driver.

Quote
Thanks for mentioning that. My first reaction was concern about vertical lobing, but thinking about it should not be a problem, if as you say they don't play high enough. I'm sure they play high enough for the top Neo10 to interfere with the bottom Neo10, but the inner drivers will lessen the effect by filling the nulls in. Am I far off?

Drivers have off axis narrowing based on the width of the diaphragm. This is exactly the same as the comb filtering effect of using two drivers covering the same range. Anytime a driver is playing a wavelength that is shorter than the width of its diaphragm then it beams, or losses off axis response.

So basically if you stand one Neo 10 up vertically then it has the same vertical off axis response as two Neo 10's on their side because the height is the same.

Quote
How is the distortion of Neo10 at high SPL? Of course sharing 4 reduces the distortion. But can they play really loud classical music (low frequency brassy dissonance) like a high end 4 way cone speaker - without breaking up, hardening tone, or dynamically compressing? These look promising!

They play really loud very easily and very cleanly.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jn316 on 19 Sep 2012, 05:38 pm
There is a smaller version with a single Neo 10, one Neo 3, and three 8" servo subs all on an open baffle. 93db sensitivity.

Bingo! I think there will be a LOT of interest in that one...smaller, less expensive, but still w/ the Neo 10 attributes and still very efficient. Oh, and the bass should still be pretty incredible!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HAL on 19 Sep 2012, 06:00 pm
 :drool:

Ok, I have to stop as my keyboard is shorting out!   :o
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: ebag4 on 19 Sep 2012, 06:08 pm
There is a smaller version with a single Neo 10, one Neo 3, and three 8" servo subs all on an open baffle. 93db sensitivity.

Two units can only be wired in series or in parallel. So the impedance would be either 16 ohms or 4 ohms. 4 ohms doesn't make them tube amp friendly. Four of them in series parallel wiring gets them back to 8 ohms and increases sensitivity to 96db.  Sharing the load with that many Neo 10's also reduces their work load to 1/4 that of a single driver.

Thanks for the replies Danny, much appreciated.  I should have recognized the impedence issue.

It sounds like you have a real winner on your hands, congratulations!

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: SoCalWJS on 19 Sep 2012, 06:11 pm
Wow....just beautiful Danny! Looking forward to seeing/hearing them at the show. Have you decided on amps and other associated equipment yet? Noticed the big custom Dodd Mono Blocks in the pictures - how 'bout bringing those along?  :icon_twisted:

You should indeed be competitive with the biggest of the boys at the show.

When will the new Serenity Acoustics be available?

Any idea of when your new kits will be coming out?

 :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 06:17 pm
Quote
When will the new Serenity Acoustics be available?

Orders can be taken right now. Looks like this will get kicked off in a big way. It sounds like (I still need to confirm) Serenity Acoustics will be willing to let the first six pairs go for half of retail to some select individuals willing to put these into some good systems and allow them to be heard. So there are some really good deals on the table.

Quote
Any idea of when your new kits will be coming out?

New drivers from Peerless is on the water and should arrive in port about the same time that the longshoremen are planning their strike. First one thing then another. Other pieces involving the new kits are in place.

Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Andre2 on 19 Sep 2012, 06:26 pm
I guess I will be booking my trip to RMAF so I can hear this beauty...  (are there any rooms left?)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HAL on 19 Sep 2012, 06:31 pm
Orders can be taken right now. Looks like this will get kicked off in a big way. It sounds like (I still need to confirm) Serenity Acoustics will be willing to let the first six pairs go for half of retail to some select individuals willing to put these into some good systems and allow them to be heard. So there are some really good deals on the table.

New drivers from Peerless is on the water and should arrive in port about the same time that the longshoremen are planning their strike. First one thing then another. Other pieces involving the new kits are in place.

Ok, I guess I gotta sell my Super-V's and get ready for Super-7's! :)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: DeeJayBump on 19 Sep 2012, 06:38 pm
Those look and sound (from the description) awesome. Hope to attend RMAF and listen to them.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: sl_1800 on 19 Sep 2012, 06:42 pm
Looks very cool!!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HT cOz on 19 Sep 2012, 06:54 pm
Yes, Ruben built the cabinets, but he has not heard them yet.  :lol:  Hey, Ruben does the best work. So why not.

So yes, these are American made speakers.

Congrats Ruben.  This couldn't of happened to a nicer guy!  :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Sep 2012, 06:54 pm
Orders can be taken right now. Looks like this will get kicked off in a big way. It sounds like (I still need to confirm) Serenity Acoustics will be willing to let the first six pairs go for half of retail to some select individuals willing to put these into some good systems and allow them to be heard. So there are some really good deals on the table.

I'll try again.  Cost?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 07:11 pm
I'll try again.  Cost?

Sorry about missing that one.

Retail on these are $19,995. a pair. But there is going to be an announcement on an in home dealer or show room arrangement that will allow some discounts on the retail price.

Compare these to the cost of any of the big name speakers in the cost no object ranges to mid five figure ranges and these are a bargain.   
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Sep 2012, 07:12 pm
Sorry about missing that one.

Retail on these are $19,995. a pair. But there is going to be an announcement on an in home dealer or show room arrangement that will allow some discounts on the retail price.

Compare these to the cost of any of the big name speakers in the cost no object ranges to mid five figure ranges and these are a bargain.
Now seems like a good time then.  What do they cost?   :icon_lol:

When do we get to see the data on them?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 07:19 pm
Now seems like a good time then.  What do they cost?   :icon_lol:

When do we get to see the data on them?

Huh?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Sep 2012, 07:22 pm
Huh?

But there is going to be an announcement on an in home dealer or show room arrangement that will allow some discounts on the retail price.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 07:31 pm
Okay jtwrace, that is going to take some deeper explanation and I may start a new thread for that. Bare with me. This will be really good.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: rockdrummer on 19 Sep 2012, 07:38 pm
Love that design, and can't wait to hear more about them. 

With the new kit designs in development, are any of them going to trump the Super V or is that still going to be the flagship GR kit?

Looking forward to hearing how dominant the Super 7's are going to be!

B
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Skiman on 19 Sep 2012, 07:41 pm
Looking forward to hearing them at RMAF. Please, please have the ability to play our CDs this year. In fact, the ability to play attendees' SACDs and or DVD Audios would be even better. Heck, I've seen many bring their LPs to RMAF!

Now I know why Ruben has been delayed getting my LS center done.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 07:42 pm
Love that design, and can't wait to hear more about them. 

With the new kit designs in development, are any of them going to trump the Super V or is that still going to be the flagship GR kit?

Looking forward to hearing how dominant the Super 7's are going to be!

B

The X-Otica kit will be VERY good. It will be more refined, and a little more accurate than the Super-V, but won't have the dynamics of the Super-V. I think I can keep the X-Otica kit below $2,000 too. So it will be less expensive. The Super-V will still be number 1 for fun factor alone. But it does cost more too.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Sep 2012, 07:44 pm
Looking forward to hearing them at RMAF. Please, please have the ability to play our CDs this year. In fact, the ability to play attendees' SACDs and or DVD Audios would be even better. Heck, I've seen many bring their LPs to RMAF!

Now I know why Ruben has been delayed getting my LS center done.

I got caught off guard last year by the new Mac Mini not having a CD/DVD drive. I will try to bring a separate drive this year.

 :lol:  I am shipping Ruben LS-C kits today.  :lol: 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Outofthewoods on 19 Sep 2012, 07:44 pm
Now I know why Ruben has been delayed getting my LS center done.

Told ya! :green:

See you Sunday.

Best,

Ruben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: rockdrummer on 19 Sep 2012, 07:46 pm
Back in my lurking days, before I planned on really investing, I really liked the OB 5 and 7.  Then I migrated over to the v2 and Super v.  Now that I've fallen in love with, designed, and built in my head the Super V, I don't think I'll be happy with anything else. 

Anyone else not getting work done?

ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Outofthewoods on 19 Sep 2012, 07:52 pm
Congrats Ruben.  This couldn't of happened to a nicer guy!  :thumb:

Thanks man! :beer:

Will you be at the show this year?

Ruben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: gab on 19 Sep 2012, 08:00 pm
The X-Otica kit will be VERY good. It will be more refined, and a little more accurate than the Super-V, but won't have the dynamics of the Super-V. I think I can keep the X-Otica kit below $2,000 too. So it will be less expensive. The Super-V will still be number 1 for fun factor alone. But it does cost more too.

Danny - care to comment on the sound differences between your Super-V and the new $20K retail Serenity?

gab
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: SoCalWJS on 19 Sep 2012, 08:18 pm
Danny - care to comment on the sound differences between your Super-V and the new $20K retail Serenity?

gab
Ditto!

(I can make a few guesses, but I'd probably be wrong! :oops:)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: srclose on 19 Sep 2012, 08:23 pm
Probably wrong, but I'm guessing the midrange of the Epiphany line source, which I loved, and the bass of the Super V.  That's a combination I could live with.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: SoCalWJS on 19 Sep 2012, 08:32 pm
The X-Otica kit will be VERY good. It will be more refined, and a little more accurate than the Super-V, but won't have the dynamics of the Super-V. I think I can keep the X-Otica kit below $2,000 too. So it will be less expensive. The Super-V will still be number 1 for fun factor alone. But it does cost more too.
Decisions, decisions.............

Those are tough trade offs. I really like the effortless sound produced by highly efficient speakers. Dynamics can make such a difference.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: corndog71 on 19 Sep 2012, 08:43 pm
$20,000 :o

And I thought the Super Vs were expensive.  Sometimes it feels like I'm being priced out of this hobby.

Good thing we can build our own for a fraction of the cost.

Still loving my factory clearance X-Statiks and I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 19 Sep 2012, 10:43 pm
Price on the single Neo 10/Neo 3/triple 8" servo speakers? (Super-5?)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: mgalusha on 19 Sep 2012, 10:47 pm
Told ya! :green:

See you Sunday.

Best,

Ruben

Don't forget about me either. ;) (I know you're swamped, just couldn't resist).
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Outofthewoods on 19 Sep 2012, 11:03 pm
Don't forget about me either. ;)

NEVER!!!

I should have them finished by the end of the month. :thumb:

Best,

Ruben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: bigbang on 20 Sep 2012, 01:04 am
Bingo! I think there will be a LOT of interest in that one...smaller, less expensive, but still w/ the Neo 10 attributes and still very efficient. Oh, and the bass should still be pretty incredible!

Out in time for :xmas:?   Oh wifey...

A pic of these asap please!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 01:55 am
Danny - care to comment on the sound differences between your Super-V and the new $20K retail Serenity?

gab

There's actually quite a bit of difference between them.

Right off the bat the big difference is resolution. The Super-7 has lots of it all over. And it is really surprising just how much difference there can be especially right in the mid-range. I now notice subtle details in the background that otherwise goes easily unnoticed. I guess a lot of it has to do with just how fast the Neo 10's return to rest, or how fast they stop. Just super clean without strain, without glare, without ring or overshoot. Just amazing....

The highs are really good on the Super-7's too. And in the same way. And since they are all open baffle too now the Neo 3 has a more relaxed and natural sound to them that you just don't get with the rear back cup on them. I thought it is was a big deal when I went from the shallow back cup to the deep back cup. Going to no back cup at all was an even bigger deal.

Another big deal is how the drivers are now acoustically in phase front to back. So they sound almost the same in the back as they do in the front. The phase relationship does not change. This perfect phase relationship of the drivers has apparently improved the imaging as well. The sound stage is bigger, more layered, and more pin point focused. And they sound even more transparent and not like a speaker. They place the music in the room with you without getting in the way.

They are so good that it is almost creepy.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: tull skull on 20 Sep 2012, 02:42 am
Very nice Danny. I am sure you will win many deserved accolades.

I don't understand however why you can't offer something close to this as a kit? You could have a pre-CNC'd front baffle and everything else is within most enthusiasts reach.

Also, did you happen to try the mids standin up tall with a narrower front? What were the results of that? Was there better imaging?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 02:50 am
Quote
I don't understand however why you can't offer something close to this as a kit? You could have a pre-CNC'd front baffle and everything else is within most enthusiasts reach.

The speakers belong to Serenity Acoustics. They are not interested in offering them as kits.

I have also found that as my top level kits get more expensive I have fewer people wanting them as kits. A lot if not most customers in those price ranges don't want to build the speakers themselves. They want it completed.

Quote
Also, did you happen to try the mids standin up tall with a narrower front? What were the results of that? Was there better imaging?

I explained that in an earlier post. Whether the mids are side by side or on top of each other makes no difference. They play as one 10" square driver.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: gregfisk on 20 Sep 2012, 02:57 am
GFisk,  Danny had an older version with what would be a N3S in the top sealed and a side loaded 12 with the servo amp on back.  I have though of making one of these, but the weight to ship would be big..   heavy...  Something like this would work with Danny's kits with little mods..(http://[img]http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67962)
[/img]

Go forward one post... sorry..

Thanks for the response, what I'm wondering is how this will compare to the other diy offerings? I would really like to build an OB speaker but I just don't have the room for it now or in the near future. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: oldman45 on 20 Sep 2012, 03:02 am
Very nice Danny. I am sure you will win many deserved accolades.

I don't understand however why you can't offer something close to this as a kit? You could have a pre-CNC'd front baffle and everything else is within most enthusiasts reach.

Also, did you happen to try the mids standin up tall with a narrower front? What were the results of that? Was there better imaging?

I'm confused.  I thought the Neo10 was bad because of its length and comb filter issues.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 20 Sep 2012, 03:07 am
I have also found that as my top level kits get more expensive I have fewer people wanting them as kits. A lot if not most customers in those price ranges don't want to build the speakers themselves. They want it completed.

And these kits would probably be around what, $15k, especially if they included the baffle? If you can swing $15k on a pair of speakers, you would probably just say heck with it and by them complete...and I would be very jealous!  :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 20 Sep 2012, 03:16 am
Danny,

Is there a price yet on the Super-5? I've already named it for you!  :lol:
...the single Neo 10, Neo 3 and three 8" servo subs.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 03:20 am
Quote
I'm confused.  I thought the Neo10 was bad because of its length and comb filter issues.

Well, if you let them play up to 10kHz or something then they would definitely have some vertical dispersion issues. That is if it were standing up vertically. They aren't allowed to play up high enough to beam or to have any comb filtering issues.

Danny,

Is there a price yet on the Super-5? I've already named it for you!  :lol:
...the single Neo 10, Neo 3 and three 8" servo subs.


No, that model has not been completed yet.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 03:24 am
And these kits would probably be around what, $15k, especially if they included the baffle? If you can swing $15k on a pair of speakers, you would probably just say heck with it and by them complete...and I would be very jealous!  :thumb:

Like I mentioned earlier. On the table is the idea pf letting the first six pair go at half price just to get them out there in some good hands. So there are some bargains to be had. And that tells you right there that even in kit form they would still have to cost about $10k.

Sometimes given a few pairs away at cost to the right people gets you more advertising than money spent on ads. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: studiotech on 20 Sep 2012, 03:26 am
Can I get a cut of that action too?  I almost did the same thing on my project last year.  I tried 2 sideways and really wanted to get more to make the 10" squares, but could not commit any more money at the time and decided it was already so good.  Plus, the larger Raal sideways was weird.  Might be better with the OEM...

Can't wait to hear them....   :thumb:

Greg


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68069)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 20 Sep 2012, 03:31 am
Huh.

Danny, thanks for letting us follow along - sometimes maybe a little uncomfortably - with more of the details of how this industry really works than a lot of companies would probably EVER put out there.  Between conversations with you and Eric at dB Audio Labs, the hobbyist interest I have in studying business has had a lot of interesting things to watch unfold over the last year or two.

The Super-7 looks to me like a top-shelf evolution of an open baffle version of the strata mini concept from a while back - a speaker I liked very much.  It will be interesting to hear.  Part of my goal in going to RMAF all along has been to get a little experience with a broad spectrum of exactly what "way out of my pay grade" really sounds like, just to gain perspective with what I actually CAN do, after all. . . you know, better understand my own personal point of diminishing returns in this hobby. . . just kind of surprised a bit at finding this in Danny's room. . .  Oh well; should be pretty neat regardless.

This may be a silly question, but as it sounds like Serenity Acoustics is taking over the GR room this RMAF, will GR-Research be couch surfing in another room at the show?  Maybe another AC vendor hosting the Super-Vs?  Seeing as that is THE head-to-head I'm thinking a lot of folks here on AC would love to hear, and perhaps as crystal-clear a demonstration of what the "next level" really means as one could possibly get. . . that would be something very cool for after show hours kind of fun.

. . . and if someone forgets to bring one, maybe Lowes (Home Depot?) stocks a USB DVD-ROM drive (maybe the Wal-Mart)?  :green:

. . . and Danny, for twenty large (or ten-ish on the super-limited-intro-niceguy-special pricing), no love for the no-rez on the servos? ;)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: tull skull on 20 Sep 2012, 03:34 am
The speakers belong to Serenity Acoustics. They are not interested in offering them as kits.

I have also found that as my top level kits get more expensive I have fewer people wanting them as kits. A lot if not most customers in those price ranges don't want to build the speakers themselves. They want it completed.

I explained that in an earlier post. Whether the mids are side by side or on top of each other makes no difference. They play as one 10" square driver.

The speakers belong to serenity acoustics? Umm, it's a superV with neo10s, no? In fact you are the one who said something like superV on steroids. Do they own the superV as well now?? P.S. I am just kiddin'.

Narrower baffle not better than wider baffle? Can you explain? I will look for that post where you said it makes no difference to see if you explained why.

Man, you must be so excited! Are you going to power them with some of Gary's amps?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: oldman45 on 20 Sep 2012, 03:50 am
Now that I have read through this thread; congrats Danny.   It looks like you have a new winner.  I love how the Super-V's sound.  Combine that with the Neo and it should sound that much better.  On a side note; and I thought the $2500 for the Super-V's was out of my league.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 03:56 am
Quote
. . and Danny, for twenty large (or ten-ish on the super-limited-intro-niceguy-special pricing), no love for the no-rez on the servos?

The lower section will be lined with No Rez. It is just not in there yet.

Quote
Narrower baffle not better than wider baffle? Can you explain? I will look for that post where you said it makes no difference to see if you explained why.

Oh, you mean the whole baffle being narrow. In this case the lower baffle is already as narrow as it can be to accommodate the lower woofers.

There is a catch 22 in there on the baffle width. Narrow is better in that it minimizes the surface reflections and improves imaging. However, there needs to be a wide enough baffle to separate the front and back waves enough to push the dipole peak into a range where the low end response of the driver starts to fall away. In this case a 13" wide baffle with a 2.5" to 5" side wing making a very shallow U shape did the trick. Some of this work was refines on the Super-V.

The baffles effects on the tweeter have been greatly minimized with a small wave guide. Otherwise it would have a real negative effect on the highs.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 03:59 am
Quote
Man, you must be so excited! Are you going to power them with some of Gary's amps?

Dodd Audio 30 watt mono-block tube amps that are battery powered.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: tull skull on 20 Sep 2012, 04:25 am
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

I would still love to have you play around with 2 vertical neo10's then the tweeter then another pair of vertical neo 10 on a narrower baffle. Yes you would have to come up with a different bass solution as in a separate enclosure but  "I likes me imaging" and any chance for improvement in that department is worth it to me.

Man, congratulations Danny. I hope I can hear these one day.

I am still looking forward to finishing and listening to my two AV1 kits soon
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: persisting1 on 20 Sep 2012, 05:28 am
Sounds like some are concerned that this will not be a kit, but let's be happy for Danny and his new business venture. These are not GR Research speakers, so you really can't compare these price wise to his other offerings.

The DIY crowd will be happy when he offers his new GR line. 

Congrats Danny.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 20 Sep 2012, 05:35 am
Nice !! 8)

Good luck with the Super 7's Danny....... :beer:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gprro on 20 Sep 2012, 05:48 am
With mention of db labs on the previous page, is Eric part of Serinity? Mixes well with the tranquility name. I ask also because I had a conversation with him 2-3 years ago about how good I thought the neo10 s were going to be now that they were released for the public. Actualy told him, as I mentioned in the other thread where the big array came up, that I wanted to build them. Not mad or anything,  just jelous and a little bummed :icon_lol: . Maybe  I can become a dealer or something in the future :thumb:... I know they'll sound amazing!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Sep 2012, 06:17 am
Sounds like some are concerned that this will not be a kit, but let's be happy for Danny and his new business venture. These are not GR Research speakers, so you really can't compare these price wise to his other offerings.

The DIY crowd will be happy when he offers his new GR line. 

Congrats Danny.

Couldn't have said it better
Congraats Danny  :thumb:

-jay
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 20 Sep 2012, 10:48 am
With mention of db labs on the previous page, is Eric part of Serinity? Mixes well with the tranquility name. I ask also because I had a conversation with him 2-3 years ago about how good I thought the neo10 s were going to be now that they were released for the public. Actualy told him, as I mentioned in the other thread where the big array came up, that I wanted to build them. Not mad or anything,  just jelous and a little bummed :icon_lol: . Maybe  I can become a dealer or something in the future :thumb:... I know they'll sound amazing!
If I had to guess I'd say Ruben is part owner of Serenity since he is the builder.  It makes sense to me.     :dunno:  I'm sure the other owner will be at RMAF for all of us to meet. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 01:39 pm
Fellows, the principle owner is no one that you know and is more of a business investor than an audiophile.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 01:43 pm
Quote
I would still love to have you play around with 2 vertical neo10's then the tweeter then another pair of vertical neo 10 on a narrower baffle. Yes you would have to come up with a different bass solution as in a separate enclosure but  "I likes me imaging" and any chance for improvement in that department is worth it to me.

Acoustics centers get further apart doing that so the crossover point would have to be lower. And right now the tweeter is reaching down about as low as it can go and still maintain this sensitivity level. So that wouldn't work out to well.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: seadogs1 on 20 Sep 2012, 01:54 pm
And there are designs from a 93db mini-monitor that will play down to a -3db of 20Hz. When can you release any info on this monitor? Will it be at this year's RMAF? It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for to replace my John Tucker modded Usher BE-10's as I need to downsize. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 02:04 pm
And there are designs from a 93db mini-monitor that will play down to a -3db of 20Hz. When can you release any info on this monitor? Will it be at this year's RMAF? It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for to replace my John Tucker modded Usher BE-10's as I need to downsize. Keep up the good work!

A very narrow mini with a Neo 10 and Neo 3 in a sealed box. It then sits on an matching stand that has a pair of 8" servo subs built into it that are side firing. So from 200Hz and down they will be completely adjustable. So a perfect speaker to have to place near a rear wall or to place in a small room.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 02:12 pm
Optional look. What do you guys think of this?

(http://gr-research.com/pics/super7v.jpg)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jparkhur on 20 Sep 2012, 02:14 pm
I always liked the bow tie look, but i like this one too.   tough choice ..  the length and lines of the single grill makes it look cleaner, more refined, modern.  The bow tie adds a characteristic of traditionalism....

JP

So to answer your question... yes... .   ha  both...
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: borism on 20 Sep 2012, 02:18 pm
This looks more elegant to me.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 20 Sep 2012, 02:19 pm
I think it looks really good both ways, yet they are considerably different. Is the bow recessed so that you could offer it with either grill?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 02:20 pm
I think it looks really good both ways, yet they are considerably different. Is the bow recessed so that you could offer it with either grill?

Right now it is either or. They can be made either way.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HT cOz on 20 Sep 2012, 02:28 pm
Congrats again to the Serenity Crew.  I don't think we should lament that these are not available to the DIY crowd.  The fact that they are priced competively amoung peers only means that the company will be around for a long time to come.

I like the non-bowtie look!  :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: orientalexpress on 20 Sep 2012, 02:34 pm
wow,i like it  :thumb:,might consider a replacement for my Sp Tech,let me look some funding under the couch :green:



lapsan
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: brother love on 20 Sep 2012, 02:39 pm
I think the "bow tie" look is more elegant.  Without it, the Super 7 looks more slender.

A very narrow mini with a Neo 10 and Neo 3 in a sealed box. It then sits on an matching stand that has a pair of 8" servo subs built into it that are side firing. So from 200Hz and down they will be completely adjustable. So a perfect speaker to have to place near a rear wall or to place in a small room.

Now you are talking more my lingo.  8)  Will this be a GR Research kit product or part of the Serenity Acoustics line?  Sounds like you have some great products on the way!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gregfisk on 20 Sep 2012, 02:54 pm
I like this clean line look a lot better. Like jparkhur said it is more modern and more refined. I have never cared for the stands (feet) on the
Super V myself, and even more with this version I think something with cleaner (straight) lines on the base would look much better, just my opinion.

Also Danny, congratulations on your new business venture. About 25 years ago when I had a young business I told a very successful 79 year old client that I was
thinking about quiting the business I was in because I wanted to do something else. He looked at me and said, why don't you just do both? That was the best
advice anyone ever gave me.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Captainhemo on 20 Sep 2012, 03:00 pm
Optional look. What do you guys think of this?

(http://gr-research.com/pics/super7v.jpg)

I really like this one Definitely a cleaner look.  Personally,   I think it looks  more "Classy".
Very  nice   :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jeffh on 20 Sep 2012, 03:06 pm
Definitely like the optional non-bowtie look the best.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: srclose on 20 Sep 2012, 03:10 pm
Sleeker look without the bow tie.  Nice proportions.

SRC
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: nickd on 20 Sep 2012, 03:15 pm
I'm a "bow tie" owner, :thumb:

If I were selling product at 20k, I would go with the full grill and no "bow tie" however. That just seems to be what the market expects. I have found if you want to stay in business it's best not to fight the market unless you have a product like the "I phone" that is powerfull enough in demand to re-shape the entire market.

A dipole at 20k no mater how good is not likely to re-shape the market. This market is just too small and their are too few rooms and familes that can handle the size, placement requirements of the "Super 7".

I do hope I'm in that "small" market. I love Danny's designs and those neo drivers. I have realized, that I need two rooms now, as I love "Line Source" designs as well. Kind of like my fondness for both tubes and solid state I guess.

Can't wait to hear the new design at RMAF :drool:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 03:18 pm
Quote
I have never cared for the stands (feet) on the Super V myself, and even more with this version I think something with cleaner (straight) lines on the base would look much better, just my opinion.

The shape of the base can be altered some, but the wide positioning of the floor spikes really helps with stability. Floor spikes need to be forward of the plane of the front baffle and a little wider than the sides.

This is another great thing about speakers that are not built in China 100 pairs at a time and you take what is available. These will be built in small runs. So the customer can decide how they wants their speakers to look and what color they want them to be.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 03:20 pm
Quote
If I were selling product at 20k, I would go with the full grill and no "bow tie" however. That just seems to be what the market expects. I have found if you want to stay in business it's best not to fight the market unless you have a product like the "I phone" that is powerfull enough in demand to re-shape the entire market.

That is very true.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: sl_1800 on 20 Sep 2012, 03:56 pm
I like the no bow tie look better as well.  For me I would change the feet somehow, not sure how, and decrease the radius on the front lower corner of the side panels.  Just my 2 cents worth.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: rockdrummer on 20 Sep 2012, 04:05 pm
I really like the bow tie look on the now discontinued V2, and current Super V.  But I'm leaning toward leaving it off the Super 7 because it looks sleek and stylish.  It is hiding a powerful yet delicate identity underneath that fits the look.  I can't get past the fact that I think it should look more different than similar than the GR builds.

Jealous and loving the looks.

Good luck.

I used to really want Martin Logan electrostats.  Secretly hoping these give the CLX a beatdown. 

ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Don_S on 20 Sep 2012, 04:40 pm
My feeble brain demanded to see them side by side (or at least in the same post--one up and one down).  Why does the bottom one remind me of a penguin?  :scratch:

Optional look. What do you guys think of this?

(http://gr-research.com/pics/super7v.jpg)

(http://gr-research.com/pics/Super72.jpg)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 04:43 pm
I am starting to like the continuous grill myself.  :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: sl_1800 on 20 Sep 2012, 04:56 pm
Danny, how tall are they?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: stevenkelby on 20 Sep 2012, 04:58 pm
Congratulations Danny, Ruben and co. I'm sure these are going to blow people away, hope I can hear them one day.

I much prefer the no-bow tie look as well.

The look of the Super V kit I am building appeals to me as the ratio of material above and below the bow tie , and the size of the bow tie itself, is naturally pleasing to my eyes. Even though it does look like a penguin :)

The pics on page 2 did not appeal to me, it looks visually unbalanced.

The pics of the no-bow tie option really speak to me though and I would love a pair :) They look very elegant.

I agree that the bottom/front radius of the side panels could be tighter/smaller.

The feet don't bother me, I like them but the shape of the 2 front feet could perhaps match the shape of the top of the side panels. It might look nice if both parts had a similar size and shape. It might tie in the top and bottom of the speaker.

I assume they are simply 4/3rds the height of the Super V?

Floor spikes need to be forward of the plane of the front baffle and a little wider than the sides.

Does that go for the Super V as well? I'm thinking of putting me front spikes about 2" behind the plane of the front baffle, but with a rear spike 17" behind the front baffle plane. Sorry to be OT.

I think it's great that  you are making products out of the price range of DIY. You do enough for that segment of the market, it's about time you did something like this :)

Saying that, all the parts to build this speaker are available yes? Theoretically, one could build more or less this speaker DIY. Of course the x over is a problem but one could go fully active, or try and sort out a passive network themselves.             

I think the magic of Danny's designs is in the x overs,that IP should be well guarded, maybe you can pot the whole X over in black resin or something to keep prying eyes away.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Skiman on 20 Sep 2012, 05:30 pm
I prefer the 'no bowtie' look myself. More importantly, I asked my significant other her opinion, and she agreed, commenting that it looked sleeker.

I wonder how many of these $20,000 speakers are going to wind up in dedicated listening rooms, and how many will live in a living room coexisting with other furniture.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 20 Sep 2012, 05:31 pm
I think getting the baffle just right with the DIY route would be a challenge...per conversations with Danny.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jeffh on 20 Sep 2012, 05:59 pm
Where is the crossover?  Are you putting it into an external box or mounting it like the V1?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 06:10 pm
Quote
Does that go for the Super V as well? I'm thinking of putting me front spikes about 2" behind the plane of the front baffle, but with a rear spike 17" behind the front baffle plane. Sorry to be OT.

If you do that then a great majority of the weight will all be on the front spikes.

Danny, how tall are they?

Not counting any floor spikes, about 57 inches tall.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Early B. on 20 Sep 2012, 06:26 pm
No bow tie. The full grille looks much more elegant and high class for the market.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: R_burke on 20 Sep 2012, 06:29 pm
No bow tie. The full grille looks much more elegant and high class for the market.

I second the emotion
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 20 Sep 2012, 06:49 pm
If you do that then a great majority of the weight will all be on the front spikes.

Not counting any floor spikes, about 57 inches tall.
What is the height of the tweeter? (Chair question - how tall should my chair be..I really like my earsto be very close to the height of thw tweeter(s))
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 06:56 pm
What is the height of the tweeter? (Chair question - how tall should my chair be..I really like my earsto be very close to the height of thw tweeter(s))

These drivers have a lot of overlap (tweeter to mids), the phase relationship is near perfect, and the vertical dispersion changes very little with change in height. So this is not a critical issue at all.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jimdgoulding on 20 Sep 2012, 07:05 pm
I like the full screen better, too.  Do you have a pair to demo in house?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 07:12 pm
I like the full screen better, too.  Do you have a pair to demo in house?

I have this pair in house until RMAF. After that who knows where they might go. I never like to haul too much back from the show. Show specials, show specials....
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Hugh on 20 Sep 2012, 07:13 pm
I'll bite. 75% off? :)
I have this pair in house until RMAF. After that who knows where they might go. I never like to haul too much back from the show. Show specials, show specials....
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Skiman on 20 Sep 2012, 07:24 pm
I have this pair in house until RMAF. After that who knows where they might go. I never like to haul too much back from the show. Show specials, show specials....

I'm going to have to leave my credit cards and check book at home, and not drive my pickup when I attend this year's RMAF.  :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jimdgoulding on 20 Sep 2012, 07:27 pm
I have this pair in house until RMAF. After that who knows where they might go. I never like to haul too much back from the show. Show specials, show specials....
What is a ballpark price you would consider?  Thanks.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 07:38 pm
What is a ballpark price you would consider?  Thanks.

See PM.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: cleestedwood on 20 Sep 2012, 07:43 pm
Danny, is it possible for you to design a retrofit to add two of the Neo-10"s to the top end of the Super-V ? 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 07:49 pm
Danny, is it possible for you to design a retrofit to add two of the Neo-10"s to the top end of the Super-V ?

No.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: MaxCast on 20 Sep 2012, 08:01 pm
What is the base made of?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 20 Sep 2012, 08:05 pm
See PM.
Sounding like the show pair will be gone quick (if I weren't flying in.................)

Anything else that you "don't want to take back"? How about Dave and the rest of the gang?????? :green:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2012, 08:11 pm
What is the base made of?

MDF. And I am pretty sure it is just screwed on.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 20 Sep 2012, 08:22 pm
Rich, you better get in quick if you want the show speakers again!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 20 Sep 2012, 08:24 pm
I never like to haul too much back from the show. Show specials, show specials....

If that goes for Dave's stuff too, I'll bring an external disk drive for your mini in exchange for the BatteryBuss!
 8)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 20 Sep 2012, 08:30 pm
Gary,
I will watch the feeding frenzy at the show!  Should be interesting to see who the high bidder is!

Looks like an auction is happening! :)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 20 Sep 2012, 08:36 pm
If that goes for Dave's stuff too, I'll bring an external disk drive for your mini in exchange for the BatteryBuss!
 8)
If Dave doesn't have the desire to haul some of his new cables or power cords back, I'll pack light so there's some room in my suitcase.... :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: DeeJayBump on 20 Sep 2012, 08:49 pm
Full grill looks better to me as well.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gregfisk on 20 Sep 2012, 09:14 pm
I like the no bow tie look better as well.  For me I would change the feet somehow, not sure how, and decrease the radius on the front lower corner of the side
panels.  Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree with all of this, if you decrease the radius on the bottom of the sides it will look more sleek. For the base you could come out far enough forward so that
the feet can stick out straight to the sides in front of the speaker or you could widen the base to the edge of the speaker and have the feet come out straight
forward. Or you could start at the back woofer box edge of the speaker and grandually angle the feet outword as they come forward to the desired location.
Anyway, just some thoughts......
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: tull skull on 20 Sep 2012, 11:28 pm
I agree with all of this, if you decrease the radius on the bottom of the sides it will look more sleek. For the base you could come out far enough forward so that
the feet can stick out straight to the sides in front of the speaker or you could widen the base to the edge of the speaker and have the feet come out straight
forward. Or you could start at the back woofer box edge of the speaker and grandually angle the feet outword as they come forward to the desired location.
Anyway, just some thoughts......

And I agree with all this... :)

I think one thing to remember is we are all Danny fans and we can recognize the heritage of this speaker immediately. I think you will get a lot of valuable feedback at the show Danny and can modify the speaker as you see fit.

 I do think peoples' judgement does come into question when their lower jaw is on the floor though, so you might want to keep that in mind though :D
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 20 Sep 2012, 11:32 pm
I didn't realize this was the Super-7 redesign thread.   :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: seadogs1 on 21 Sep 2012, 02:03 pm
Quote
The new company is called Serenity Acoustics. And by new I mean totally new, not a peep, no talk, no publicity, still getting moving.

I have designed a lot of product lines before, but this part for me is a bit new though. I typically get a royalty that is some sort of percentage of sales for my design work. This time I took a small percentage of the company.    And I get say so about the whole product line. Whatever I decide.... And there are designs from a 93db mini-monitor that will play down to a -3db of 20Hz.

My Question is: When will the new company be starting up and when will the Mini-monitor be for sale and for how much? Thanks!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 02:44 pm
My Question is: When will the new company be starting up and when will the Mini-monitor be for sale and for how much? Thanks!

The new company is starting up right now. They plan to make their debut at RMAF.

Four other models are in the works and the mini-monitor is pretty much next in line. Cost cannot be determined until the design is completed so that production cost are validated.

Hang in there. I am excited about that one too.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 21 Sep 2012, 02:51 pm
The new company is starting up right now. They plan to make their debut at RMAF.

Four other models are in the works and the mini-monitor is pretty much next in line. Cost cannot be determined until the design is completed so that production cost are validated.

Hang in there. I am excited about that one too.
Is Serenity Acoustics going to be ID? Any news on when a website will be up?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Sep 2012, 02:52 pm
What kind of paramaters are you shooting for?  I ask as the Vapor Sound has been said to be one of the best if not hte best monitors out there now.  I know I'm looking forward to hearing them at RMAF.

This should all be very interesting.  Will you have a prototype at RMAF?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 03:43 pm
Quote
What kind of paramaters are you shooting for?  I ask as the Vapor Sound has been said to be one of the best if not hte best monitors out there now.  I know I'm looking forward to hearing them at RMAF.

This should all be very interesting.  Will you have a prototype at RMAF?

I don't really "shoot" for parameters as one would think. And I don't consider others or target other companies.

The mini-monitor design has been tested and the specs and parameters have been confirmed using not so pretty test boxes. Now getting the nice looking curved cabinet design completed is next challenge for that design.

What I can tell you is that the Neo 10 tops any woofer out there in the range that they cover. They also match perfectly with the Neo tweeter. The spectral decay is very clean as well. The impedance is an easy load too. Sensitivity is 93db. That is much higher sensitivity than most mini-monitors. So you can drive these with just about anything. And with the servo subs in the stand there is flexibility in balancing the output for any room. This gives them a huge advantage over any other speaker. And then there is the fact that they can play really low...

Compare them to any other speaker that you want. Nothing offers what this speaker will offer. There really will not be any fair comparisons.

And the only speakers going to RMAF are the Super-7's.

And jtwrace, This new set up on AC added a modify button right next to the quote button. So I can now modify other peoples posts in my forum. I accidentally hit the modify button instead of the quote button and missed up your post thinking that I was responding (not modifying). I think I have what you stated restored now, but I think you had a quote in there that I lost. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 03:44 pm
Is Serenity Acoustics going to be ID? Any news on when a website will be up?

Something very new. More on that coming....
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Sep 2012, 03:49 pm
And with the servo subs in the stand there is flexibility in balancing the output for any room. This gives them a huge advantage over any other speaker. And then there is the fact that they can play really low...
How many 8" servo subs in each stand?  Do you have an approximate cost?  $5k, $7.5k or $10k?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 21 Sep 2012, 03:53 pm
I don't really "shoot" for parameters as one would think. And I don't consider others or target other companies.

The mini-monitor design has been tested and the specs and parameters have been confirmed using not so pretty test boxes. Now getting the nice looking curved cabinet design completed is next challenge for that design.

What I can tell you is that the Neo 10 tops any woofer out there in the range that they cover. They also match perfectly with the Neo tweeter. The spectral decay is very clean as well. The impedance is an easy load too. Sensitivity is 93db. That is much higher sensitivity than most mini-monitors. So you can drive these with just about anything. And with the servo subs in the stand there is flexibility in balancing the output for any room. This gives them a huge advantage over any other speaker. And then there is the fact that they can play really low...

Compare them to any other speaker that you want. Nothing offers what this speaker will offer. There really will not be any fair comparisons.

And the only speakers going to RMAF are the Super-7's.

And jtwrace, This new set up on AC added a modify button right next to the quote button. So I can now modify other peoples posts in my forum. I accidentally hit the modify button instead of the quote button and missed up your post thinking that I was responding (not modifying). I think I have what you stated restored now, but I think you had a quote in there that I lost. Sorry about that.
No other speakers at all, or the only Serenity Acoustics?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 21 Sep 2012, 04:02 pm
 :drool:  :drool:  :drool:

Dang it, shorted out the keyboard again!  :D
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 04:30 pm
How many 8" servo subs in each stand?  Do you have an approximate cost?  $5k, $7.5k or $10k?

The plan is for two, but a version could get released with one. And no comment on the second question yet.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 04:30 pm
No other speakers at all, or the only Serenity Acoustics?

I am not taking any other speakers to the show.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Sep 2012, 04:31 pm
I am not taking any other speakers to the show.
Why abandon GR kits though?   :scratch:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 04:38 pm
Why abandon GR kits though?   :scratch:

Kits are still available, and this year I have no new kits to show. And my Super-V's have received best sound at the show honors two years in a row already. Everyone already knows how good they are. It's time to take things over the top. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Sep 2012, 04:46 pm
Kits are still available, and this year I have no new kits to show. And my Super-V's have received best sound at the show honors two years in a row already. Everyone already knows how good they are. It's time to take things over the top.
I'd still bring some sort of kit speaker though.  Even if it's an N3 as they really show what a reasonably priced speaker can sound like wtih some elbow grease (or dust). 

This is your game and you're the pro though. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2012, 05:11 pm
I'd still bring some sort of kit speaker though.  Even if it's an N3 as they really show what a reasonably priced speaker can sound like wtih some elbow grease (or dust). 

This is your game and you're the pro though.

Yeah, but it takes an awful lot of N3 sales to cover the advertising cost of a $4,400 room. And any time spent showing kits is time people would not have to hear the Super-7's. Time spent swapping out speakers is time lost too. We also optimize the room around the speakers.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 21 Sep 2012, 05:19 pm
If Dave doesn't have the desire to haul some of his new cables or power cords back, I'll pack light so there's some room in my suitcase.... :icon_twisted:
I don't like to haul parts and pieces back, either.  There will definitly be show specials from PI audio group at RMAF.  I'll have a listing of what I will be taking on my Circle in a day or so after I figure out what all it will be.

Pack light, my friend  :lol:

You, too, jn316................................

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 21 Sep 2012, 07:11 pm
You, too, jn316................................

Dave

No packing light for me, I'm driving...big vehicle, huge vehicle!  :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Sep 2012, 07:14 pm
No packing light for me, I'm driving...big vehicle, huge vehicle!  :thumb:
That's how you get smokin' good deals on really big stuff.   :thumb:

Cash and carry is king IME. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 21 Sep 2012, 08:34 pm
That's how you get smokin' good deals on really big stuff.   :thumb:

Cash and carry is king IME.
You guys are right. CASH is BIG in Denver.  Always a good way to pick up the great products at rockin' prices  :drums:

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 21 Sep 2012, 10:54 pm
I don't like to haul parts and pieces back, either.  There will definitly be show specials from PI audio group at RMAF.  I'll have a listing of what I will be taking on my Circle in a day or so after I figure out what all it will be.

Pack light, my friend  :lol:

You, too, jn316................................

Dave
Then I'll bring 2 suitcases. One full of clothes and necesseties and one empty for filling up when I get there (or should it just be full of cash  :banghead:)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jparkhur on 22 Sep 2012, 12:47 am
Danny.   That bow tie thing.  Do it right and make the grill full length and then as a bonus add in a slender color matched bow tie that can be taken on and off the grill as it would divide the tops and bottoms. It's the best of both worlds with little cost to you and gives 20k customers one more option. 

JP





 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Early B. on 22 Sep 2012, 01:34 am
Danny.   That bow tie thing.  Do it right and make the grill full length and then as a bonus add in a slender color matched bow tie that can be taken on and off the grill as it would divide the tops and bottoms. It's the best of both worlds with little cost to you and gives 20k customers one more option. 

Great idea. A couple of magnets should do the trick. Also, the bow tie may be a nice place to put a logo. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 22 Sep 2012, 05:52 am
We also optimize the room around the speakers.

And it pays off....always the best "optimize" room at the show....all the years I've gone. :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 23 Sep 2012, 04:27 pm
I want to jump in here with a little bit of a correction in regards to the name "super 7". This was a speaker kit offered in the late 70
's as Danny said, but the company was not Soundlab (known for their excellent electrostatic speakers-I have a pair of Soundlab Dynastats). The company name is Speakerlab ( I have a pair of super 7's, and a pair of it's successors, the DAS-7's). Speakerlab was also famous for their upgraded version of the Klipschorn speakers in kit form -very hard to build those cabinets. Speakerlab is still in business in Seattle as far as I know, but with new owners, and their present speakers don't resemble the earlier models. Btw, if anyone wants to buy a pair of original super 7's, or DAS-7's, or Soundlab dynastats, They are all for sale cheap. Just PM me.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 23 Sep 2012, 08:32 pm
I want to jump in here with a little bit of a correction in regards to the name "super 7". This was a speaker kit offered in the late 70
's as Danny said, but the company was not Soundlab (known for their excellent electrostatic speakers-I have a pair of Soundlab Dynastats). The company name is Speakerlab ( I have a pair of super 7's, and a pair of it's successors, the DAS-7's). Speakerlab was also famous for their upgraded version of the Klipschorn speakers in kit form -very hard to build those cabinets. Speakerlab is still in business in Seattle as far as I know, but with new owners, and their present speakers don't resemble the earlier models. Btw, if anyone wants to buy a pair of original super 7's, or DAS-7's, or Soundlab dynastats, They are all for sale cheap. Just PM me.

Thanks Milehighguy,

I knew that.  :duh:  Speakerlab was the name. Sorry for the confusion. I spoke with the son of the original owner several years ago about using that name on an upcoming design that I was working on and he thought it was pretty cool to use the name and that I remembered that original speaker from many years ago.

Sure man, post some pics of the old original Super-7 for us.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 23 Sep 2012, 09:15 pm
OK,
I'll try to post pix of the super7's, and DAS-7's, but give me a day or two, because I'll need to do some archeological excavations in order to dig them out. Sort of like the TV show "American Pickers".
The DAS-7's were my main speakers for many years. DAS stands for "Digital Audio Speakers". This was back when CD players were first hitting the market, and all the audio equiptment was advertised as "digital ready" or capable of handling the new digital format.
Speakerlab was a pioneer in bringing the dream of high quality audio to the common man at reasonable prices through speaker kits. Gr Research is certainly keeping that tradition alive today.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gregfisk on 24 Sep 2012, 12:56 am
Thanks Milehighguy,

I knew that.  :duh:  Speakerlab was the name. Sorry for the confusion. I spoke with the son of the original owner several years ago about using that name on an upcoming design that I was working on and he thought it was pretty cool to use the name and that I remembered that original speaker from many years ago.

Sure man, post some pics of the old original Super-7 for us.

I was wondering if that was what you meant Danny . I built a pair of Super 7's back in the day although I didn't do a very good job. They are still in business but they are definitely not the same company they used to be. I had a really bad experience with them and will never go back.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: nrenter on 24 Sep 2012, 01:52 am
Danny,

There's some serious competition at that price point. Curious about who you've compared the Super-7's to (side-by-side) and specifically, how the competition stacked up?

Plus, I know you're a Tool man - How do they handle the Laturalus test?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 24 Sep 2012, 01:21 pm
Danny,

There's some serious competition at that price point. Curious about who you've compared the Super-7's to (side-by-side) and specifically, how the competition stacked up?

Plus, I know you're a Tool man - How do they handle the Laturalus test?

Actually, I don't think there are any speakers out there at this price point or any other that can do what these speakers do. There is really nothing to compare to these.

And they easily handle everything.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: sl_1800 on 24 Sep 2012, 01:36 pm
Danny I'm looking forward to hearing these this week!!!!   :D
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Hugh on 24 Sep 2012, 04:12 pm
I have got to listen to these myself. :)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: danm on 26 Sep 2012, 09:45 pm
I understand the reason, but still think it sucks balls that some similar versions won't be offered as kits...
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 26 Sep 2012, 10:21 pm
I understand the reason, but still think it sucks balls that some similar versions won't be offered as kits...
I understand your jonesing, BUT the worst thing that an independent designer (which Danny is) can do is to offer a product that is in direct competiton to one that he has designed for one of his customers.  That is just something that is not done.  I do some work for others and I will not come out with a directly competing produuct.  That is not only unethical, but just wrong by my estimation.  Danny has ALWAYS gone out of his way to treat his customers right: ALL of his customers.  That is a very good thing.  That is what makes Danny, Danny.

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: studiotech on 26 Sep 2012, 10:22 pm
Well, you CAN buy all of the drivers from Danny, so it's a little more DIY than a kit, but it is doable.  They are sold from a new company and their business model does not include selling kits.  Done, over and out. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Ric Schultz on 26 Sep 2012, 11:59 pm
The Neo 3 tweet he is using is custom (probably more efficient to keep up with the 96db mids), so direct cloning is not possible nor is he going to release the xover schematic.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Sep 2012, 12:37 am
The Neo 3 tweet he is using is custom (probably more efficient to keep up with the 96db mids), so direct cloning is not possible nor is he going to release the xover schematic.

That is all very true.

And the complexity of the cabinet design and wave guide for the tweeter is far outside the ability of the average hobbyist. This one would be a very difficult build to even an expert hobbyist.

And trust me, 90% of the people looking for a speaker at this level are not wanting to build a kit. They want it complete.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: oldman45 on 27 Sep 2012, 02:35 am
I was wondering if that was what you meant Danny . I built a pair of Super 7's back in the day although I didn't do a very good job. They are still in business but they are definitely not the same company they used to be. I had a really bad experience with them and will never go back.

I remember seeing their ads in the back of Stereo Review and wondering what it would be like to build one of their kits.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: morganc on 27 Sep 2012, 02:48 am
I understand your jonesing, BUT the worst thing that an independent designer (which Danny is) can do is to offer a product that is in direct competiton to one that he has designed for one of his customers.  That is just something that is not done.  I do some work for others and I will not come out with a directly competing produuct.  That is not only unethical, but just wrong by my estimation.  Danny has ALWAYS gone out of his way to treat his customers right: ALL of his customers.  That is a very good thing.  That is what makes Danny, Danny.

Dave

That's an excellent point Dave.  I think the best way to look at this is to raise a toast to Danny's success
:wine: :wine:.  I think it's fantastic that he is opening doors to a more successful future.   As a result, a much broader range of people will get to experience the genius of Danny, a point that many of us here know, and Im sure his success and R and D will trickle down into other models and DIY Kits.  So it's a good situation for everyone :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: rockdrummer on 27 Sep 2012, 01:55 pm
Upon reading this thread, and re-reading many parts of this thread over and over, I have come to several dead ends in my thinking. 

First, I was super excited about this speaker for Danny.
Second, I was also super excited about this speaker for his customers.
Then came many other thoughts.  It really looks like a GR product.  Which threw me.
Danny deserves to do whatever he wants with his business vision.  Lord knows he does plenty for those of us who buy his kits!!

I think we all know that the price of every flagship product, ESPECIALLY in electronics, really comes down to compensate for the R and D.
The biggest thing about these speakers that I think makes me need to step back is that Danny has provided the golden egg in a reproducable form, meaning his kits.  So seeing a potentially groudbreaking speaker at a sizeable pricepoint, mostly made with parts we see on his website, makes the differentiation between kit and not, almost uncomfortable for me.  Don't get me wrong, I'm fully in support of Danny and his involvement in Serenity Acoutics.  I think that will help GR Research in some ways.   

I'm a DIY gr research kit customer, seemingly for life.  So I'm not going anywhere.   And I'm sure everyone else is too. 
I just hope nobody blames Danny for selling knowledge and design in his chosen way. 

Ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Cheeseboy on 27 Sep 2012, 04:06 pm
Congradulations it looks like a home run for you Danny.  I'm a relatively new customer for GR Research.  I invested in products that you designed for the defunct AV123.   I'm on my second set of GR Designed Speakers.   If it wasn't for you designing for a finished goods speaker company I would have never found GR Research.  The evolution of your designs and new thought with new drivers is wonderful to follow.  As my tastes become more refined so do your creations.  I'm really happy about this venture and wish you the best of luck.  In so many ways your success is mine and ours as well.   

Keep up the good work!

$10K to $20K is out of my price range.  However a Super V with all of the new thought in the Super VII is something I would consider building myself.  It was a scary thought at first but the support of this web site makes it look really attainable. 

Have a really good show.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Sep 2012, 04:37 pm
Hey fellows, I just took delivery of another dozen P-Audio drivers for the Super-V. So Super-V kits are still available.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jparkhur on 27 Sep 2012, 04:43 pm
Danny,  Will you put the new diameter on there too......
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Sep 2012, 05:12 pm
Danny,  Will you put the new diameter on there too......

Yes, I will take a measurement of these newer drivers and make note of the diameter.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gab on 27 Sep 2012, 06:53 pm
Yes, I will take a measurement of these newer drivers and make note of the diameter.

are you guys talking about the 12.58" dia and the 11.32" dia in the supervbox plans being too small for the new drivers?

gab
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Sep 2012, 08:05 pm
are you guys talking about the 12.58" dia and the 11.32" dia in the supervbox plans being too small for the new drivers?

gab

The outer measurement.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: sl_1800 on 29 Sep 2012, 02:47 am
Guess what I got to hear today!!  :D


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68496)

I know you are all itching to know how they sound.  Let me first say I have heard most of Danny's speakers over the past several years including the Epiphany, LS9, LS6, V1, V2, Super V and most all of his smaller speakers.  I currently own a pair of Super V's and Linkwitz Orion's and I have had many different models from Green Mountain Audio and Merlin VSM and SoundLab electrostatics.  I have been to some of the audio shows and heard numerous different speakers, everything in the world.....no, but I have heard many.

Let's just say I now have to raise some funds from somewhere to buy myself some new speakers!!!  We sometimes don't realize there is a problem until the problem is gone, then it's obvious when you go back.  In listening to this speaker today it was obvious there were so many problems gone compared to anything else I have ever heard.  Just to touch on a few things that jumped out and grabbed me by the throat.  Three dimensional imaging, I didn't have to close my eyes and reconstruct the soundstage in my mind, it was just there in spades, depth of stage and width was just scary.  Sweet spot was as wide as the house, really, I have never been able to move around a room and hear image placement that good.  Cabinet resonances.....there wasn't any.  I was there most all day and we listened to a couple of different DAC's and 2 different sets of mono block amps and 2 different music software apps on the mac mini.  These speakers made the differences so discernible, differences that I have never been able to hear in the past. 

There are a lucky few that have already placed their orders for these amazing speakers, you guys wont be disappointed.  I'm sure many more of you will be digging in those pockets once you hear them at RMAF next month.

One more thing, the construction, fit and finish of these speakers is second to none.

Oh and one more tidbit if I can, Gary Dodd has a real winner on his hands with his little mono block battery powered amps, 30 watts per and they kicked butt with this fantastic speaker.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68499)

Don't just take my word on it, go listen for yourself, but be prepared to part with some cash.





Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 29 Sep 2012, 04:57 am
Congratulations on getting an early preview of the new speakers.  Also, considering your background with Danny's designs, you are a great person to ask "the" question:  All poetry aside, critically speaking, how would you compare these to the Super-V?.  Disregarding simply "better" as not quite enough detail, how are they similar, how do they differ, and what strengths do you feel each has one compared to the other?  Thank you for your time and thoughtful reply. :)

Danny, I saw you note earlier in the thread your statement regarding the quality of the mids in the new speaker, being better than all others.  As strong as that statement is and that you are probably the only person right now able to answer this question, how do you believe your new (hopefully somewhere on the water or on the docks as we speak) high-end OB drivers compare in this regard?  Thank you again for the same in your reply. :)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Tyson on 29 Sep 2012, 05:30 am
I cannot freaking wait to hear these at RMAF!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Early B. on 29 Sep 2012, 12:17 pm
Glad to read a preview on these speakers. They sound like real winners. I also want to hear more about Gary Dodd's new battery powered tube monos.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: mykyll2727 on 29 Sep 2012, 04:59 pm
Danny,

Congratulations on your new business venture and I wish you the absolute best of luck with it. Those super 7s are awesome! I hope to get to hear them some day. Personally I think both grills look great but I like the look of the full baffle a bit better. A very sleek and high end look. To me it looks a little more befitting a $20k speaker. Also I think the idea of a removeable bow-tie is a great one and the cost could certainly be absorbed in the $20k price tag. Just my $.02.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 29 Sep 2012, 10:08 pm
Hey mykyll2727,

Welcome to AC.

Hey Steve (sl_1800),

You'll have to come listen all over again.  They just got even better.  :lol: :lol: :lol:  I tweaked something since yesterday. The vocals are a little more balanced, a little deeper in the sound stage, and blending better with the lower drivers.  :lol: :lol: :lol:  I couldn't help myself. I think I can put down the paint brush now. Now I am really grinning.  :green:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gprro on 29 Sep 2012, 10:28 pm
What did the low end limit of the neo10s end up being? Guessing the more used, the lower they could go also.

Was thinking one of the biggest challenges would be getting the neos and subs to blend well. That's right in the range where you have something like the resonace of cello bodies and detail of strings competing. I'm sure the servos and lighter weight ob drivers made it possible. Along those lines, with the possibility of using very different amp technologies on the mids and woofers, have you tried something like a dodd buffer in front of the woofer amps if you wanted to warm their sound up to match a warmer tube amp?   
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: mikeeastman on 29 Sep 2012, 10:32 pm
Come on Danny I'm sure you could come up with at least a couple more tweaks before RMAF. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 29 Sep 2012, 10:35 pm
Hey mykyll2727,

Welcome to AC.

Hey Steve (sl_1800),

You'll have to come listen all over again.  They just got even better.  :lol: :lol: :lol:  I tweaked something since yesterday. The vocals are a little more balanced, a little deeper in the sound stage, and blending better with the lower drivers.  :lol: :lol: :lol:  I couldn't help myself. I think I can put down the paint brush now. Now I am really grinning.  :green:
Danny, I'm really excited about RMAF.  With all of the SQ leaps that all of us have made in our products since the last show  I'm thinkin' that we will have an experience to be heard and felt in 2024!  I'm working away on some new things, Gary has some SERIOUS amps this year, Eric's DACs and things are sounding great here and I know that Pete will have slammin' cables for everyone.  We will get the room dialed in and have a strong presentation this year.

It just gets better and better and more fun every year.  :thumb:  Steven Stone: we have a treat for you!!!

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 29 Sep 2012, 10:37 pm
Come on Danny I'm sure you could come up with at least a couple more tweaks before RMAF. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mike, you know how hard we have been working on this.  Thanks for your patience and friendship.   :D  You, too, Randy!

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: mykyll2727 on 29 Sep 2012, 11:22 pm
Hi Danny, Thanks for the welcome. I've been lurking around for awhile and decided to finally join up. BTW we're not quite exactly strangers. I've contacted you a couple of times. Most recently by phone. I'm the guy in Vegas that asked you about modding some Swans. Will you be here for CES?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 30 Sep 2012, 12:03 am
Two more questions on the new speakers:

Binding posts?  Did you decide on tube connectors as standard or something else?  Also, with the way the production runs have been described, could clients choose what they would like for them if they have a particular preference?

Second, any photos of how the amplifiers got dressed out for the servos?  Are these speakers going to use the plate amps we are all familiar with or did the amps get new casework for the commercial venture?

Regarding the crossovers, very nice to read you found a way to get "a little more" out of them.  I would caution about calling things "done", however, as RMAF will probably be a very good "public beta" for this design.  (Sorry for squeezing so many "quotes" into this sentence. . .  :lol:)  The experiences at the previous shows with the Super-V and Tyson's observations in particular started a conversation here afterward that contributed to bringing us the current part values and the Jupiter caps in that design - generally agreed to be a great benefit all around.

Your open mind and passion for continuously improving your designs is what makes that kind of progress possible.  It will be interesting to see how these kinds of evolutionary improvements could potentially be translated to this new commercial venture in the long-term life of the model/design.  I don't really know how the high-end of the speaker market works, if folks just move on fairly regularly to new/different models or if they approach their speaker purchases as long-term investments, but if the investment approach is correct such upgrades over time would be a good way to present even greater value for the dollar vs. competitors as well as a means to keep interest buzzing with clients long after the sale.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 30 Sep 2012, 03:25 am
Quote
Binding posts?  Did you decide on tube connectors as standard or something else?  Also, with the way the production runs have been described, could clients choose what they would like for them if they have a particular preference?

I recommend the tube connectors to all the companies that I do design work for. See...

(http://gr-research.com/mis/dav5.jpg)

It doesn't make any sense to not use them. They are too far ahead of everything else performance wise. Anything else is just too big of a backward step.

Quote
Second, any photos of how the amplifiers got dressed out for the servos?  Are these speakers going to use the plate amps we are all familiar with or did the amps get new casework for the commercial venture?

The servo amps are still plate mounted. The boxes that they are mounted in will be dressed up and bit and match the speakers.

And yes, my mind is always open to improvements that could be found anywhere. There are actually quite a few tricks that will be used on these to take them to another level.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 30 Sep 2012, 04:06 am
 :beer: Danny!

I really hope I don't sound like I'm coming off harsh on the new toys.  Just asking some questions that I would have if I were in the market these were aimed at.  Also thinking that some more detailed info describing the differences between these and the V's would help some of the folks who have built out the V's and might be thinking about upgrade would help them in deciding if they want to take the step into the new or stick with what they've got. . . if getting to RMAF just isn't the cards.

On the binding posts, I agree that if there really is nothing better, why not go with the best.  I also know by reading some of the threads on AC that cable termination is one of those things that folks take kind of personal, as in everyone has their own opinion as to what is "best", measured results or not!  I just wouldn't want someone to pass on these because their favorite cables (probably very expensive in their own right) won't fit, or some perception that the tube connector is any "less" of an option give the speaker a ding in a review or discussion among high-end folks that isn't really deserved.  No point in making an uphill fight EVERY step of the way in bringing a new product to market, no?  Not suggesting making a performance compromise, but rather making sure a client willing to invest $20K has whatever options - within reason - that can be made available to make the client confident and 100% satisfied with the purchase; no regrets, unless those start with a phone call to you saying something like, "I know I said differently, and now I know you were right, but. . ." ;)

(. . . and I saw the photo of the CA speaker in the above post.  Did you happen to. . . pirate. . . a pair of the grey tube connectors for the S7 going to the show. . . you know, because the colors would flow better with the paint choices on the S7. . .  :D)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 30 Sep 2012, 06:52 am

How about 96db sensitivity.


How the heck do you pull this off with the Neo 3 rated at 93 dB/W sensitivity?? 96 dB for the 4 Neo10s makes sense though.

Very rational design - I'd really like to hear it.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Ric Schultz on 30 Sep 2012, 06:54 am
I can see the tube connectors on more inexpensive stuff that people DIY.  You do have to reterminate your speaker wire with the tube male connector.......not such a big deal for those who are DIYers and make their own cables.  But people buying $20,000 speakers?  Most of these people already own speaker wires that are expensive and probably terminated with spades.  How are they going to use their speaker cables?  They cannot.

The tube connectors are not sonically better than the binding post bypass system.  The binding post bypass system allows you to use any spade or bare wire speaker wire and clamp it directly to the wire coming out of the speaker.  The only limitation of the binding post bypass system is you cannot use really large gauge wires coming out of the speaker to wrap around the outside of the binding post for the clamp.  The binding post bypass system can be used on amps too....same results....you cannot go back to any binding post.

However, a plastic or wooden clamping system is even more transparent.  Even the mass of the connector messes up the sound even though you are clamping the wires together......so the best thing is clamping without any metal.  A clamp system also allows the customer to also use Zobels, Ground Enhancers, Bybees, whatever, in conjunction with the speaker wires.

The picture below shows a cotton covered wire coming out of the amp through some grommets using very inexpensive binding posts.  This could be made to look mucho better for the serious money people.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68650)
 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 30 Sep 2012, 01:38 pm
Quote
How the heck do you pull this off with the Neo 3 rated at 93 dB/W sensitivity?? 96 dB for the 4 Neo10s makes sense though.

It's a custom version.

Quote
I can see the tube connectors on more inexpensive stuff that people DIY.  You do have to reterminate your speaker wire with the tube male connector.......not such a big deal for those who are DIYers and make their own cables.  But people buying $20,000 speakers?  Most of these people already own speaker wires that are expensive and probably terminated with spades.  How are they going to use their speaker cables?  They cannot.

The male end of the Electra Cable tube connectors can easily be fitted to any speaker cable in just a few minutes. The tube connectors also accept a standard banana plug, but will obviously not sound as good.

The biggest problem I have seen in the past with the by-pass system is the often exposed bare wire. So after some time the connection quality is often compromised by oxidation. I am not saying this always happens, but it often happens. The second biggest problem with that being used in high end audio is the same as the biggest problem the tube connectors have faced. It is not audio jewelry.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HT cOz on 30 Sep 2012, 01:45 pm
Ahh just leave the wire hanging out with a pack of these
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68663)
 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder if you can find them in wood?

 :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Nick77 on 30 Sep 2012, 02:27 pm
Quote
     The male end of the Electra Cable tube connectors can easily be fitted to any speaker cable in just a few minutes. The tube connectors also accept a standard banana plug, but will obviously not sound as good.                                                                 

My speaker cables have spades on one end and banana's on the the other so the tube connectors worked out. I wasn't about to chop up my $1500 speaker cables, i agree this could be a issue for high end market. I'm sure the option of a high end standard posts would solve this issue.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 30 Sep 2012, 08:39 pm
Ahh just leave the wire hanging out with a pack of these
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68663)
 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder if you can find them in wood?

 :thumb:

That would probably work well, if done right!

I understand the best connection of all is proper wirewrap around a square post - better than solder.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 30 Sep 2012, 10:08 pm
My speaker cables have spades on one end and banana's on the the other so the tube connectors worked out. I wasn't about to chop up my $1500 speaker cables, i agree this could be a issue for high end market. I'm sure the option of a high end standard posts would solve this issue.

My thinking is the complete opposite. Why would I want to use a high quality $1,500 a pair speaker cables then degrade the sound with a spade or a banana plug if I didn't have to? New ends can be put on in about 20 minutes. And if you already have the ends...  A pretty significant tweak that cost nothing but a little bit of time, you bet!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Nick77 on 30 Sep 2012, 10:58 pm
deleted
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 30 Sep 2012, 11:14 pm
My thinking is the complete opposite. Why would I want to use a high quality $1,500 a pair speaker cables then degrade the sound with a spade or a banana plug if I didn't have to? New ends can be put on in about 20 minutes. And if you already have the ends...  A pretty significant tweak that cost nothing but a little bit of time, you bet!
The problem that you have is that it completely devalues the cables.  Until you convince all the "high end" cables guys that Tube Connectors are the new standard, you will have an issue if you are really going to be selling these speakers for $20k. I highly doubt that most will chop them up for Tube Connectors.   :dunno:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: persisting1 on 30 Sep 2012, 11:17 pm
The problem that you have is that it completely devalues the cables.  Until you convince all the "high end" cables guys that Tube Connectors are the new standard, you will have an issue if you are really going to be selling these speakers for $20k. I highly doubt that most will chop them up for Tube Connectors.   :dunno:

You can always send your cables in to get re-terminated by the factory. Not convenient, but much cheaper than new cables.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 30 Sep 2012, 11:19 pm
You can always send your cables in to get re-terminated by the factory. Not convenient, but much cheaper than new cables.
Yes, I know that.   :duh:  For instance, I'm not so sure that Cardas would even put them on though.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: persisting1 on 30 Sep 2012, 11:25 pm
Yes, I know that.   :duh:  For instance, I'm not so sure that Cardas would even put them on though.

I was under the impression that the tube connectors accepted banana plugs. You can have Cardas add those if you have spades or bare wire.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: persisting1 on 30 Sep 2012, 11:33 pm
jtwrace, you're right.

I feel your pain. If this hobby "allowed" me to be happy with my purchase and never needed to upgrade, then this wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 30 Sep 2012, 11:39 pm
I was thinking about this issue recently as I was contemplating puting together a N3S kit. Actually, I'm hoping to have the Skiing ninja do the work as soon as I get some spare change. Anyway, it occured to me that it doesn't have to be an either/or decision. You can have tube connectors on the back of the speaker attached to the crossover net work by a pair of wires,  and also have conventional connectors also mounted on the back of the cabinet and attached to the same points of the crossover network with a different pair of wires. You might have to put a little sign on the back saying "use only one pair of connectors at a time".
You could also have a sliding cover over the connectors. Slide the door to the right and the tube connectors are uncovered, but the conventional connectors are covered. Slide the cover to the left and the tube connectors are covered, but the conventional connectors are uncovered.
I ran this by Danny and the Skiing ninja, and they both said it would work.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 01:13 am
I was under the impression that the tube connectors accepted banana plugs. You can have Cardas add those if you have spades or bare wire.

They do. The tube connectors accept standard banana plugs.

And I don't see it as de-valuing a cable by upgrading the ends. Another 20 minutes later and a new set of spades can be put on if that is what someone wants. No big deal.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Oct 2012, 01:16 am
Another 20 minutes later and a new set of spades can be put on if that is what someone wants. No big deal.
That's not true if you have any cable that has printed shrink tube on them from the factory.  Any decent cable guy does this so they know they haven't be touched. 

There's a bit more to it then hack-n-cut. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 01:25 am
That's not true if you have any cable that has printed shrink tube on them from the factory.  Any decent cable guy does this so they know they haven't be touched. 

There's a bit more to it then hack-n-cut.

Jason, there is nothing to terminating a cable. Cut, strip, crimp, solder, heat shrink....  And you're done.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 1 Oct 2012, 01:29 am
there is nothing to terminating a cable. Cut, strip, crimp, solder, heat shrink....  And you're done.
Really?  I had no idea.  Sorry, you just don't get it I guess.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 01:39 am
Really?  I had no idea.  Sorry, you just don't get it I guess.

Oh yeah, fancy labeled heat shrink. It would be a shame to loose that. That might de-value the cable hundreds of dollars.  :roll:

Funny thing is that I sell quite a few of those tube connectors to my customers. And I have had a few note a considerable improvement in the sound when swapping them into their speakers from various top level binding posts. They then order more tube connectors for all of their other speakers and extra male studs to put on all of their other extra speaker cables.

I think I get it, and my customers seem to get it as well.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 1 Oct 2012, 02:46 am
 :o
 :slap:
 :(

I am VERY sorry!  It seems like every time I try to type something into this thread, it just ends up going bad.  I'm going to do what I probably should have done from the start - I'm going to as graciously as I can bow out of this thread and hopefully let it get back to positive energy looking forward to hearing the new Super-7.

See y'all in Denver.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: SoCalWJS on 1 Oct 2012, 03:01 am
Oh yeah, fancy labeled heat shrink. It would be a shame to loose that. That might de-value the cable hundreds of dollars.  :roll:

Funny thing is that I sell quite a few of those tube connectors to my customers. And I have had a few note a considerable improvement in the sound when swapping them into their speakers from various top level binding posts. They then order more tube connectors for all of their other speakers and extra male studs to put on all of their other extra speaker cables.

I think I get it, and my customers seem to get it as well.
:nono:
Danny

Never forget the puurty factor  :green:

There is something to be said for it - especially for those that have resale value in mind (at least in the back of their minds) when they purchase something.  :peek:

 :green: :green:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Early B. on 1 Oct 2012, 03:16 am
The answer has already been provided -- give the customer a choice of tube connectors or high end binding posts.

If I were buying $20K speakers, I'd want as much audio jewelry as possible, including pretty binding posts. And I wouldn't snip the spades from my $1,500 speaker cables. Those high end spades are partly why I purchased them.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 03:33 am
:o
 :slap:
 :(

I am VERY sorry!  It seems like every time I try to type something into this thread, it just ends up going bad.  I'm going to do what I probably should have done from the start - I'm going to as graciously as I can bow out of this thread and hopefully let it get back to positive energy looking forward to hearing the new Super-7.

See y'all in Denver.

No big deal.

:nono:
Danny

Never forget the puurty factor  :green:

There is something to be said for it - especially for those that have resale value in mind (at least in the back of their minds) when they purchase something.  :peek:

 :green: :green:

Like someone already said. Sending back a set of cables to get re-terminated at the factory would be no big deal.

The answer has already been provided -- give the customer a choice of tube connectors or high end binding posts.

If I were buying $20K speakers, I'd want as much audio jewelry as possible, including pretty binding posts. And I wouldn't snip the spades from my $1,500 speaker cables. Those high end spades are partly why I purchased them.

I appreciate the insight guys. And I know some people think that way. I guess I am all about the performance and not too much into glitz and glam. I just can't image a top level speaker or speaker cable still using a bolt and spade connectors. The performance difference to be gained from the connectors are at least half again as much as the differences in the speaker cables themselves. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: satfrat on 1 Oct 2012, 03:35 am
My Ridge Street Poiema cabling would negate owning any of Danny's loudspeaker designs with those tube terminals as the only option. Ridge Street's speaker cabling consists of flat silver cabling with no terminations installed, only a spade-like semicircle CNC milled into the side. For someone like myself who lovessssss cables like this, there will never be any compromising my no termination Ridge Street Poiemas,,, regardless of how good those new Super V's might be. A choice of industry standard terminals on them should offerred IMHO.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Captainhemo on 1 Oct 2012, 03:42 am
Why wouldn't you go with what gives you the best  audio performance ?
I'm  by no means in this class of speaker/cable but I don't see why  changing the termination  on the end of a cable  to something that can only  enhance  the transfer of  the audio signal from cable to  input leadd would be a bad thing.
If I were in  a position to be buying these,  I'd want the  best possible sound.
Just my $.02  :)

-jay
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: cab on 1 Oct 2012, 03:46 am
Letting your cable terminations determine your speaker choice seems like the tail wagging the dog....
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 03:48 am
My Ridge Street Poiema cabling would negate owning any of Danny's loudspeaker designs with those tube terminals as the only option. Ridge Street's speaker cabling consists of flat silver cabling with no terminations installed, only a spade-like semicircle CNC milled into the side. For someone like myself who lovessssss cables like this, there will never be any compromising my no termination Ridge Street Poiemas,,, regardless of how good those new Super V's might be. A choice of industry standard terminals on them should offerred IMHO.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

I appreciate that feedback, but you are still pushing the signal through a binding post. So some of the advantages you might be getting in the cable is negated. All that nice cable and then the signal has to pass through a polished bolt.  :duh:  So they are already compromised. Now if you get Ric Schultz to get you the same wire as internal wire, and feed it through the cabinet using his modified binding post trick that he posted a picture of on the page before this one, then that would be a very good connection.

And BTW, I use some of Robert's (Ridge Street's) top level interconnect. Robert loaned me interconnect for RMAF several years ago. He also brought me some of his power cables and speaker wire. Robert and I had a little cable swapping season after hours to see if gains could be made. His interconnects won out hands down. However, his speaker cables lost out to the Electra Cables. And he and I both agreed that in that system the Electra Cables sounded best. And this was before they introduced the tube connectors that took it all up another notch.

And the new speakers are the Super-7's. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Rclark on 1 Oct 2012, 03:55 am

 Danny, can you explain why exactly, why these special binding posts transmit the audio signal better than the bipass method, or Cardas, or just plain old spades?

 Or is this an intangible thing that you hear over long term and decide is better?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gprro on 1 Oct 2012, 03:59 am
maybe you could have Electra make a spade adapter, a male tube conector with a small flat piece of the same metal at the end and a couple small flat pieces plastic and a screw down to clamp them...
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 04:02 am
Danny, can you explain why exactly, why these special binding posts transmit the audio signal better than the bipass method, or Cardas, or just plain old spades?

 Or is this an intangible thing that you hear over long term and decide is better?

A low mass Copper tube is way better than a high mass bolt. It also puts the internal speaker wire and external speaker wire to within .045" from one another. So there is much less in the signal path to degrade the signal.

Check out the info posted on their web site: http://www.electracable.com/tubeconnector.htm  And look at the cutaway view showing the internals.

And yes, they do sound notable better. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: satfrat on 1 Oct 2012, 04:03 am
I appreciate that feedback, but you are still pushing the signal through a binding post. So some of the advantages you might be getting in the cable is negated. All that nice cable and then the signal has to pass through a polished bolt.  :duh:

And BTW, I use some of Robert's (Ridge Street's) top level interconnect. Robert loaned me interconnect for RMAF several years ago. He also brought me some of his power cables and speaker wire. Robert and I had a little cable swapping season after hours to see if gains could be made. His interconnects won out hands down. However, his speaker cables lost out to the Electra Cables. And he and I both agreed that in that system the Electra Cables sounded best. And this was before they introduced the tube connectors that took it all up another notch.

And the new speakers are the Super-7's.

I know that you were familiar with Robert's cables Danny but there are other flat cable companies out there that do the same thing. While I understand your belief in your tube terminations, I do feel that you're doing many audiophiles an injustice by not offering this option. It sorta reminds me of the AVA IEC powewr cord issues of the past.  :lol: But it's your decision, I'm just offerring up my thoughts as have others, FWTW.  :thumb:

And thanks for correcting me on my Super-7's.  8)

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 04:04 am
maybe you could have Electra make a spade adapter, a male tube conector with a small flat piece of the same metal at the end and a couple small flat pieces plastic and a screw down to clamp them...

There are companies that already make adapters for spades to banana's. But by the time you do all of that you have negated the advantages to begin with.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Rclark on 1 Oct 2012, 04:04 am
 
 But Danny, what about two soldered wires, one coming from the amp, one coming from the speakers, clamped together, wouldn't this be superior to a connector that seperates them?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 04:14 am
I know that you were familiar with Robert's cables Danny but there are other flat cable companies out there that do the same thing. While I understand your belief in your tube terminations, I do feel that you're doing many audiophiles an injustice by not offering this option. It sorta reminds me of the AVA IEC powewr cord issues of the past.  :lol: But it's your decision, I'm just offerring up my thoughts as have others, FWTW.  :thumb:

And thanks for correcting me on my Super-7's.  8)

Cheers,
Robin

Again, thanks for your feedback.

I would't image that Serenity Acoustics would not fore go a sale if some one absolutely had to have a lesser quality connector put on the back of the speakers. But it would certainly be frowned upon. They might want to consider offering the customer a deal they couldn't refuse on some higher quality speaker cables with tube connector ends. All of this will be discussed shortly.

That's almost like saying I know those Sonicap Platinum's used the the Super-7's are suppose to be really good, but can I get mine with Solen poly caps?  :duh:


 But Danny, what about two soldered wires, one coming from the amp, one coming from the speakers, clamped together, wouldn't this be superior to a connector that seperates them?

Yep, and many DIY guys do permanently attach their speaker cables to their speaker that way. Or make no connection at all and run their speaker cables right out of the back of their speakers. It would be real hard to market a speaker that way though.

No connection is the best connection. Second best is tube connectors.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Rclark on 1 Oct 2012, 04:16 am
So the bipass method is the best. That's what I thought. Thanks!
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Tyson on 1 Oct 2012, 04:22 am
So, with binding posts on amps, the ones with mostly plastic and only a small amount of metal are best?  I'd agree with that, and it seems to be the direction WBT has been going recently.  Same with interconnects - the (mainly plastic) Bullet Plugs are the best I've used.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Ric Schultz on 1 Oct 2012, 04:27 am
I like Milehighguys idea.  Put both on the speaker.  The tube jacks work best with the tube plugs and regular bananas and the pure Oak? clamps would work best with spades and bare wire.  Now everyone is happy.  You have the worlds most transparent and sexiest connector (pure Oak or other hardwood clamp system).  I mean, wouldn't you want to turn some sexy hardwood knobs/nuts?......I would......maybe she would too!   he he.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 04:33 am
I like Milehighguys idea.  Put both on the speaker.  The tube jacks work best with the tube plugs and regular bananas and the pure Oak? clamps would work best with spades and bare wire.  Now everyone is happy.  You have the worlds most transparent and sexiest connector (pure Oak or other hardwood clamp system).  I mean, wouldn't you want to turn some sexy hardwood knobs/nuts?......I would......maybe she would too!   he he.

I think I like that idea best too. Add another set rather than replace.  :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 1 Oct 2012, 05:06 am
I think I like that idea best too. Add another set rather than replace.  :thumb:
Danny, I have watched this with my mind already made up, so I have no dog in the fight.  I personally use copper bolts and nuts with the internal cable run to the outside and do the incoming speaker cable/internal wire sandwich thing, so I'm just stubborn in how I want things. I build all of my own cables anyway.  The conductor to conductor gas tight pressure (cold) weld is the best connection possible, especially between non-electrolytic metals.

Just an observation from someone that is in the hi-end game, too.  If I have a customer that wants a peanut butter and jelly sandwich painted on the front of something he is purchasing for $20K in this economy, I'm gonna ask him creamy or chunky and do it.

I agree with you that the Tube Connectors are the best speaker cable connector that I have seen or used, bar none.  Audio wackos (pick me, pick me!!!  :lol: ) are a strange breed though.  If 'twere me (which it isn't obviously) I would make my case for the Tube Connectors, have Serenity offer a free re-termination service for the customer's cable (+ freight, of course) AND also offer the connector of the customer's choice as an option.  Everyone wins and the wacko that lives in all of us is satisfied.

One other observation: most audiophiles are not setup or qualified to do a high temperature/high mass cable termination.  There are a bunch of us here that do this regularly and think nothing of it.  That's good.  I have, however, seen quite a few DIY terminations that look like they were done with a knife and fork over the kitchen stove.  I had one customer complain to me how his hi-$$$ amp was a POS.... until I re-terminated his cables.

Stirring the kettle again, I guess.........................

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: persisting1 on 1 Oct 2012, 05:16 am
Ok, I guess the Electras will allow a banana plug. When I reread the Electra site it seemed like you needed to put bare wire into the stud. I guess I should have gone with my gut feeling.

Danny, maybe some are getting confused about adding the male stud of the binding post. It could be confused to as adding this as a termination?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 1 Oct 2012, 05:37 am
I'm glad that both Danny and Ric like my idea, and maybe now they can stop arguing :lol: I'll be so proud if I see two connector types on the back of a pair of the super 7's. (or any other speaker). It's also an easy way to set up a comparison of the audible results of a conventional connector vs. the tubes. you can have the same amp and cables going to the same speakers, and switch between connector systems.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 1 Oct 2012, 06:00 am
Also, I have a name for the multiple connector set-up. My name is Jack, so I call it
"Jack's extra Jacks"
Catchy,eh? :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 1 Oct 2012, 11:34 am
And if you put both connectors on the Super-7's, then folks can compare any style of cable terminations.

I like it! :)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: rockdrummer on 1 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm
I have looked at the electra tube website and would like to try them. 

Don't laugh, I have monster cable Z1 speaker cables.  I know they aren't really that good.  I got them super cheap when I worked for audio king.  $30 for a 10ft pair.   Anyway, I know there are different windings and whatnot, so I don't know if it would be worth trying to use electra tubes for my cable.  They are fitted with banana plugs right now, so I would assume, using the electra tubes on the speaker end would still be a little better than regular speaker cups.  Right?

I can see both sides of this debate about changing a product.  Frankly, some people who buy second hand aren't always informed and want to know everything is on the up and up. 

ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 01:03 pm
I'm glad that both Danny and Ric like my idea, and maybe now they can stop arguing :lol:

Funny, I didn't think we were arguing. I thought this was a great exchange of ideas. I really appreciate the feedback. This will be discussed later today with Serenity Acoustic principle owner.

Quote
I have looked at the electra tube website and would like to try them. 

Just give me a call and order a set.

I'll even offer 20% off on tube connectors to anyone that participated in this thread as a thank you.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 1 Oct 2012, 01:06 pm
 :thumb:

I have the tube connectors and will mod my Electra Cables speaker cables, once I get some new speakers. :)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: rockdrummer on 1 Oct 2012, 01:40 pm
Danny, I think I will take you up on that.  Can the speaker side tube be inserted in other posts like a banana plug?

Ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 01:49 pm
Danny, I think I will take you up on that.  Can the speaker side tube be inserted in other posts like a banana plug?

Ben

All you need for mounting them is a 7/16" hole in the cabinet.

Installation instructions are here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: rockdrummer on 1 Oct 2012, 01:52 pm
If I install them on my cables, can I use those cables on speakers that don't have the tube connection in the cabinet?

Ben
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2012, 02:43 pm
If I install them on my cables, can I use those cables on speakers that don't have the tube connection in the cabinet?

Ben

The male stud of the tube connectors is the same diameter as a standard banana plug. So it does fit the hole of a standard binding post, but there is no tension device to lock it in place. So it can be a little loose in some of them.

You can always add the male stud of the tube connector to the end of your cable then jumper over to a standard banana or spade so that your cable can use both. See these cables. They have Electra Cable male studs and standard banana's on the end.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/specialcable.jpg)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 1 Oct 2012, 06:57 pm
I'm glad that both Danny and Ric like my idea, and maybe now they can stop arguing :lol: 
Funny, I didn't think we were arguing. I thought this was a great exchange of ideas. I really appreciate the feedback. This will be discussed later today with Serenity Acoustic principle owner.

I'm sorry if my post came off a little too negetive. I was joking about the arguing part, which is why I added a smiley face. It was a great exchange of ideas, and was quite respectful. I just wanted to say that if my idea was helpful, I'm glad I was able to contribute something. I'm interested in seeing what way Serenity Audio goes on this. And I, like many others here, am certainly looking forward to seeing danny's latest and greatest at RMAF. I think this speaker has the potential to generate quite a buzz at the show. I hope I can get in the room.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 1 Oct 2012, 07:04 pm
I am just bringing food, water and hiding next to a sub!  :D
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jparkhur on 1 Oct 2012, 07:28 pm
Be careful... My friend tried that once to sneak in.....to a Tom Petty Concert in Hollywood....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68725)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 1 Oct 2012, 07:29 pm
mistake. disregard.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 1 Oct 2012, 07:35 pm
mistake #2. nevermind. :duh:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: HT cOz on 2 Oct 2012, 02:13 pm
And some of you are thinking, how do those Neo 10's work on their side? Two of them together like that make a 10" square just as if they were a single woofer. They don't play up high enough to have interference effects. It's just like having a pair of mid-bass drivers in a typical MTM design. So its like a MTM design with 10 woofers.

Danny could you make an Omni design with a pair of Neo 10 facing upward and a single Neo 3 on the front?  Or would it be better to use a single Neo 10 facing upward?  Just wondering what the possibilities are with these drivers.

Thanks,
Robert
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff....
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Oct 2012, 02:27 pm
Danny could you make an Omni design with a pair of Neo 10 facing upward and a single Neo 3 on the front?  Or would it be better to use a single Neo 10 facing upward?  Just wondering what the possibilities are with these drivers.

Thanks,
Robert

Theoretically you could face a Neo 10 up.

The good thing about them being on the same plane though is that they are physically aligned.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Oct 2012, 02:34 pm
Okay fellows, the verdict on the binding post question is...

Serenity Acoustics will put any binding posts on its speakers that the customer is willing to pay for. However, it will not replace the tube connectors. It will be a second set that is in addition to. So one can use an inferior connection if they want, but the speakers will not be bottle necked by it. The higher quality tube connectors will be there should the customer decide to update their speaker cables at a later date.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Captainhemo on 2 Oct 2012, 05:09 pm
That sounds like a good plan , can't see anyone objecting to  it
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 2 Oct 2012, 05:10 pm
 :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: mykyll2727 on 2 Oct 2012, 05:15 pm
 :thumb: That way everyone can be accommodated.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jn316 on 2 Oct 2012, 05:32 pm
Smart move, Danny. Best of both worlds. Now when there is a review saying something wasn't quite right, you can say, "Did you try the tube connectors?"  8)
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: jtwrace on 2 Oct 2012, 05:47 pm
Sounds like it's time to have some CNC aluminum plates made so the tube connectors and whatever the customer chooses can be in a nice plate that could be replaced if the customer wanted to go another route.  Simple, inexpensive, classy and very friendly to you and the customer.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 2 Oct 2012, 05:57 pm
If it was me, I would put an extra set of connectors on the show speakers, and promotional pictures. Just for show.
Imagine these two situations:
1) Rich football player (Peyton) enters the room in the market for speakers. Likes the speakers, looks them over and sees that they are connected by unusual connectors. Thinks to himself "those connectors won't work with my $10,000 spaded cables". He then leaves the room, goes to the next room and buys a pair of B&W speakers.
2)Peyton enters the room, likes the speakers, looks them over and sees that they are connected by unusual connectors. But also sees normal connectors. Asks Danny about it, and discovers the unique flexibility of the speaker, as well as the advantages of the tube connectors. Thinks to himself, " two connectors who is the genius who thought of that 'Jack's extra Jacks' idea?" (milehighguy). Buys the speakers. :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gprro on 2 Oct 2012, 06:02 pm
Be interesting to see if there are any differences in sound by having the extra few inches of wire and another conector just hanging around. I remember the thread with( can't remember their name now ) rapped wire bundled in cotton or something hanging off the binding posts having all sorts of effects. Those were supossed to be tuned though...

Maybe a failsafe and instruction only to power one set of connectors at a time. Never know when someone might try to bi-amp them.  :duh:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 2 Oct 2012, 06:09 pm
The extra connectors should be mounted far enough away from the tubes to reduce electrical effects. In my earlier post I also mentioned a small warning sign, or a sliding cover that only allows one pair to be connected at a time.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: dBe on 2 Oct 2012, 06:12 pm
Okay fellows, the verdict on the binding post question is...

Serenity Acoustics will put any binding posts on its speakers that the customer is willing to pay for. However, it will not replace the tube connectors. It will be a second set that is in addition to. So one can use an inferior connection if they want, but the speakers will not be bottle necked by it. The higher quality tube connectors will be there should the customer decide to update their speaker cables at a later date.
That is the perfect solution.  Everyone is a winner!  Someday the industry will figure out that your Tube Connectors are THE deal.

Dave
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Oct 2012, 06:14 pm
Be interesting to see if there are any differences in sound by having the extra few inches of wire and another conector just hanging around. I remember the thread with( can't remember their name now ) rapped wire bundled in cotton or something hanging off the binding posts having all sorts of effects. Those were supossed to be tuned though...

Maybe a failsafe and instruction only to power one set of connectors at a time. Never know when someone might try to bi-amp them.  :duh:

Those are basically loops. I tried variations of those using various wire, foil etc. And they did have an effect. In this case it will be a very short piece of wire connecting them and not a loop. So the effect should be very minimum if any.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Milehighguy on 2 Oct 2012, 06:31 pm
To be totally purist, having the 4 wires from the 2 sets of connectors all going directly to the crossover network would even eliminate the connection from one set of connectors to the other set of connectors and the little extra bit of wire between the connectors.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Oct 2012, 06:41 pm
To be totally purist, having the 4 wires from the 2 sets of connectors all going directly to the crossover network would even eliminate the connection from one set of connectors to the other set of connectors and the little extra bit of wire between the connectors.

Actually that is much worse. That adds an extra LONG set of wires.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 2 Oct 2012, 06:48 pm
Ok, to really dream.

Use a solid block of teflon to make the plate for the output connectors.  The aluminum plate will add extra capacitance since the metal binding posts will be very close to the aluminum plate.  The teflon would be a very low dielectric constant material to use.  No problem mounting the binding posts or friction fitting the tube connectors as well. 

Fun stuff! 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: mojave on 2 Oct 2012, 08:54 pm
Actually that is much worse. That adds an extra LONG set of wires.
Lets say the speakers wires are 8' and the distance from the binding post to the crossover is 1'. How does extending the speaker wires 1' to the crossover make it extra LONG? Why would one 9' cable be worse than speaker cable, binding posts, and wire to the crossover all totaling 9'?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: HAL on 2 Oct 2012, 09:03 pm
The wires that are being added are in parallel to the existing cable.  This adds capacitance.  The longer the wires the higher the capacitance.  The shorter the wires the less capacitance you add. 
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: nickd on 2 Oct 2012, 09:06 pm
Wow this thread has a lot of twists and turns :o

Myself, I'm just looking forward to hearing the new super 7 next Friday :thumb:

I used the tube connectors on my Super V's, and really like them. I've tried almost every binding post ever made on one speaker or another. Never bought or didn't buy a speaker because of a binding post. Speakers gotta be full range, dynamic and sonically "dissapear" to get me excited.

The Super 7 checks almost all of my boxes except for price. The economy will have to do a 180 beore I can think of spending that kind of coin on my rig. But if I had it to bolw, I might drive the truck to Colorado instead of fly :lol:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: PDR on 2 Oct 2012, 09:36 pm
Well, if there are two sets of posts it will make it easy to make
a speaker level connection to the servo amps for the guys
like me who have no outs on their integrated tube amps.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Oct 2012, 01:23 am
Well, if there are two sets of posts it will make it easy to make
a speaker level connection to the servo amps for the guys
like me who have no outs on their integrated tube amps.

That's a good point, but that won't work. The speakers come with an in line RCA filter (as a Y) as a high pass filter for planars. One end plugs into your amp and that end is filtered. The other female end (unfiltered) is where you run the RCA from your amp to the servo amp.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: seadogs1 on 7 Oct 2012, 06:07 pm
Danny any more updates on the Mini? Pictures? Price?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 8 Oct 2012, 01:03 pm
Danny any more updates on the Mini? Pictures? Price?

Nope, not yet.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: R_burke on 8 Oct 2012, 01:42 pm
Nope, not yet.

Anxious to see this one....
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: ttan98 on 9 Oct 2012, 12:47 am
Hi Danny,

I will be attending this show from down under, Australia. I hope to meet up with you and have a short chat with you, esp. discussing your new speakers.

Regards,
Tan
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Oct 2012, 12:35 pm
Hi Danny,

I will be attending this show from down under, Australia. I hope to meet up with you and have a short chat with you, esp. discussing your new speakers.

Regards,
Tan

 :thumb:
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Zerogravity on 16 Oct 2012, 04:20 pm
Awesome design on the Super 7 Danny! Seems like you hit it out of the park at RMAF this year, being awarded Best Room at the show, congratulations! I was always interested in a Neo3 in a waveguide and although being very difficult to work with, seems like it paid off. Understandably you can't compete, offering the same designs as a DIY kit. Hopefully we will see a Neo3 waveguide in a GR Research kit, one day, if cost can be kept reasonable and enough interest is shown?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: gab on 29 Oct 2012, 04:49 pm
The outer measurement.

Danny - what is the outer measurement you recommend? I am coming up with 12.625" (12 & 20/32) versus the 12.58" in the plan. Thanks

gab
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: seadogs1 on 30 Oct 2012, 11:48 pm
Danny, will the Serenity Acoustics Mini-Monitors use an ncore amp for the woofers?
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: Danny Richie on 30 Oct 2012, 11:55 pm
Danny, will the Serenity Acoustics Mini-Monitors use an ncore amp for the woofers?

No, the woofers will use the servo amps.
Title: Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
Post by: R_burke on 10 Nov 2012, 04:59 pm
Any update on either the Serenity Audio web site or the smaller monitors?