AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: jhm731 on 5 Oct 2015, 09:33 pm
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The RIHPA2015 winners are:
CD Player: Aesthetix Romulus Signature
D/A Converter: PS Audio DirectStream
Music Servers and Computer Based Audio: AURALiC Aries
Mobile Player: PonoMusic PonoPlayer
Turntable: VPI Industries Classic Signature
Pickup Cartridge: Lyra Etna
Tonearm: VPI Industries JMW-3D
Phono stage: Rogers High Fidelity PA-1A
Integrated Amplifier: Devialet Expert 200
Preamplifier: Audio Research Reference 10
Stereo Power Amplifier: PS Audio BHK Signature 250
Mono Power Amplifier: Ayre Acoustics MX-R Twenty
Bookshelf Loudspeaker: KEF LS50
Floorstanding Loudspeaker: KEF Blade Two
Headphones: HiFiMan HE1000
Headphone Amplification: MOON by Simaudio Neo 430HA
Power Cable: AudioQuest NRG WEL Signature
Signal Cable Analogue: Nordost Valhalla 2
Signal Cable Digital: Atlas Mavros Ultra S/PDIF
Power Conditioner: IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius
Racks, Platforms & Supports: Harmonic Resolution Systems RXR Audio Stand
Best Audiophile Recording (Digital): Chesky Records, David Chesky & Jazz in the New Harmonic: Primal Scream
Best Audiophile Recording (Analogue): Analogue Productions, Roger Waters: Amused to Death
Innovation: Master Quality Authenticated MQA
Value for Money: AudioQuest JitterBug
Life Time Achievement: Dieter Burmester of Burmester Audiosysteme GmbH
http://www.stereophile.com/content/rocky-mountain-international-hifi-press-awards
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From the Stereophile press release: "Roy Gregory acknowledged that there may have been some discussion about process and results…" :roll:
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From the Stereophile press release: "Roy Gregory acknowledged that there may have been some discussion about process and results…" :roll:
I'll repeat what I said in the show coverage thread when this came up:
"What a bullshit idea. Awards for DACs and stuff? There's absolutely no way you can make any comparisons of anything except entire systems, and even with that, the majority of what you hear is the speakers and the room. Idiocy."
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Wait can I add one more for this idea. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Tyson,
Please keep your foul mouth comments in your own threads.
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Tyson,
Please keep your foul mouth comments in your own threads.
Are you really that delicate such that the word BS offends you? :scratch: :lol:
Threads are for commenting on. Without comments, they are not threads.
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I'd like to see the criteria the judges used to determine the winners. How did they measure each component against all others during the show? :scratch:
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I also don't really see how one rate a component in a different room with different electronics and speakers. Sometimes it is tough enough to swap out a single component in the same system and evaluate it. It is unfortunate but the state of mainstream audio media is not what it used to be (not that anything supported by advertising was ever totally impartial). Many moons ago I used to look forward to magazines. I can't remember the last time I look at a printed magazines. There are a few websites that do good coverage of shows.
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Every time I see a list like this I have the overwhelming urge to sneeze.
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sick/messy-sneeze.gif)
Excuse me.
Scotty
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Every time I see a list like this I have the overwhelming urge to sneeze.
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sick/messy-sneeze.gif)
Excuse me.
Scotty
Gesundheit :green: :green:
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And that's why Stereopile is bull feces! :thumb:
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:scratch:
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This is part of why, on a personal level, I'm disengaging from audio in general. With the demise of the local Brick and Mortar stores, our ability to demo gear directly is seriously impeded, and all we are left is opinion pieces on the internet. Manufacturers understand this and try to build buzz by woo-ing the publications which can write reviews with the implicit understanding that ad dollars will flow. The publications can also vote on BS awards like this one, building further buzz, re-inforcing the relationship, leading to more sales for the manufacturer and more ad dollars for the publication. In this game, everyone wins. Except the customers.
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This is part of why, on a personal level, I'm disengaging from audio in general. With the demise of the local Brick and Mortar stores, our ability to demo gear directly is seriously impeded, and all we are left is opinion pieces on the internet. Manufacturers understand this and try to build buzz by woo-ing the publications which can write reviews with the implicit understanding that ad dollars will flow. The publications can also vote on BS awards like this one, building further buzz, re-inforcing the relationship, leading to more sales for the manufacturer and more ad dollars for the publication. In this game, everyone wins. Except the customers.
I actually agree with you 100%. ;)
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This is part of why, on a personal level, I'm disengaging from audio in general. With the demise of the local Brick and Mortar stores, our ability to demo gear directly is seriously impeded, and all we are left is opinion pieces on the internet. Manufacturers understand this and try to build buzz by woo-ing the publications which can write reviews with the implicit understanding that ad dollars will flow. The publications can also vote on BS awards like this one, building further buzz, re-inforcing the relationship, leading to more sales for the manufacturer and more ad dollars for the publication. In this game, everyone wins. Except the customers.
Bing Bing Bing...A voice of reason in this hobby from an industry that has gotten seriously derailed. Consumers are getting bamboozled and fleeced by the dishonesty of the reviewers(not all), publications, manufacturers, and shills. It's so hard to wade through all the information and have a clue what's actually true. Tyson and Pez's refreshingly honest approach will be missed. Declaring such things like the best Power Cable is AudioQuest NRG WEL Signature...Are you F'ing serious? How on earth could you possibly make that distinction?
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This is part of why, on a personal level, I'm disengaging from audio in general. With the demise of the local Brick and Mortar stores, our ability to demo gear directly is seriously impeded, and all we are left is opinion pieces on the internet. Manufacturers understand this and try to build buzz by woo-ing the publications which can write reviews with the implicit understanding that ad dollars will flow. The publications can also vote on BS awards like this one, building further buzz, re-inforcing the relationship, leading to more sales for the manufacturer and more ad dollars for the publication. In this game, everyone wins. Except the customers.
Hard to disagree there. Unfortunately, is it's really hard to direct market... no matter how good your products are. Consumers rarely believe a direct-marketed product from a company that spends very little on advertising and has no middle man markup can compete with the big names.
Also, this isn't exactly unique to audio... it's the way things work these days across many different industries and many are even worse.
Do you have any ideas for solutions to this problem? Personally, you could spend more time on DIY...
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This is part of why, on a personal level, I'm disengaging from audio in general. With the demise of the local Brick and Mortar stores, our ability to demo gear directly is seriously impeded, and all we are left is opinion pieces on the internet. Manufacturers understand this and try to build buzz by woo-ing the publications which can write reviews with the implicit understanding that ad dollars will flow. The publications can also vote on BS awards like this one, building further buzz, re-inforcing the relationship, leading to more sales for the manufacturer and more ad dollars for the publication. In this game, everyone wins. Except the customers.
To add further fuel to the fire, why do I have to question even the opinion of fellow internet audio communities when they discuss and shower praises on the next giant killers. I have seen too many to even bother to count. Invariably, these wares, be it esoteric, usually on the affordable end, to me sound like the audio equivalent to .99 cent store items in comparison to more established brands.
I also blame the complacency of many entrenched manufacturers that need to push the envelope of their traditional catalogue of audio products by justifying obscene $$$$$ by, what is to me, adding very little to justify these prices.
PS: I am also to blame for fueling the fire of sometimes these audio unicorns that pop out in internet audio communities. Participated in the rush of a couple of these things and threw the towel.
PS2: This might be the reason why some audioheads have vintage systems that they acquire used, and upkeep rather than joining the cult of the latest and greatest. They have been around long enough to fall into this circuit.
:thumb:
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I also bought the best speakers I heard after 10 years of RMAF (for my personal preferences), built the best amp I've heard (First Watt BA-3), and had a custom headphone/preamp built for me that I've never heard bettered. Same with my speaker wire and cables - built them myself and have not heard better. And at this point I no longer see any area where my system can be substantially improved. Going to RMAF all these years simply re-inforces that opinion.
Now all my money goes to a novel place that it's never been before - a savings account.
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Maybe Pez & Tyson should start an online review publication called "The Honest Audiophile". That will most certainly weed through the people that have some balls.
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Hard to disagree there. Unfortunately, is it's really hard to direct market... no matter how good your products are. Consumers rarely believe a direct-marketed product from a company that spends very little on advertising and has no middle man markup can compete with the big names.
Also, this isn't exactly unique to audio... it's the way things work these days across many different industries and many are even worse.
Do you have any ideas for solutions to this problem? Personally, you could spend more time on DIY...
Audio is unique in that there are no standards which are agreed upon. Until this happens the marri-go-round is going to continue. For every person that wants scientific based standards there are just as many that believe we all hear differently.
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Maybe Pez & Tyson should start an online review publication called "The Honest Audiophile". That will most certainly weed through the people that have some balls.
Maybe Jason will but I won't. If there were gear out there that was super-amazing-awesome that I could lust after and try to save for to have at home, maybe. But there just isn't. If going to 10 years of RMAF and having a ton of crazy audio buddies locally has taught me anything, it's that there's an upper limit (a ceiling) to what's actually possible for Hi Fi Audio to reproduce. And it's not all that much higher than what people with modest but good quality systems already have.
Part of the problem is that reviewers have led us to believe that if we could just manage to swing buying a "cost no object" or "no compromise" component or system, that the heavens will open and the angels will sing to us. And that's a bunch of bullshit. The difference between a modest but good system and a 'cost-no-object-no-compromise' system is maybe 10% or 15%. Spending $80,0000 on speakers to get that small level of improvement is stupid. But the whole audio industry has us jacked up, trying to somehow find thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on stuff that in reality makes a (at best) modest improvement.
We've lost the concept of "ENOUGH". At what point is your system good enough? At what point is your level of enjoyment enough? At what point do you stop bleeding cash and say enough? For myself, the answer to those questions is "Now".
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Maybe Jason will but I won't. If there were gear out there that was super-amazing-awesome that I could lust after and try to save for to have at home, maybe. But there just isn't. If going to 10 years of RMAF and having a ton of crazy audio buddies locally has taught me anything, it's that there's an upper limit (a ceiling) to what's actually possible for Hi Fi Audio to reproduce. And it's not all that much higher than what people with modest but good quality systems already have.
Part of the problem is that reviewers have led us to believe that if we could just manage to swing buying a "cost no object" or "no compromise" component or system, that the heavens will open and the angels will sing to us. And that's a bunch of bullshit. The difference between a modest but good system and a 'cost-no-object-no-compromise' system is maybe 10% or 15%. Spending $80,0000 on speakers to get that small level of improvement is stupid. But the whole audio industry has us jacked up, trying to somehow find thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on stuff that in reality makes a (at best) modest improvement.
We've lost the concept of "ENOUGH". At what point is your system good enough? At what point is your level of enjoyment enough? At what point do you stop bleeding cash and say enough? For myself, the answer to those questions is "Now".
Tyson for President
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Maybe Jason will but I won't. If there were gear out there that was super-amazing-awesome that I could lust after and try to save for to have at home, maybe. But there just isn't. If going to 10 years of RMAF and having a ton of crazy audio buddies locally has taught me anything, it's that there's an upper limit (a ceiling) to what's actually possible for Hi Fi Audio to reproduce. And it's not all that much higher than what people with modest but good quality systems already have.
Part of the problem is that reviewers have led us to believe that if we could just manage to swing buying a "cost no object" or "no compromise" component or system, that the heavens will open and the angels will sing to us. And that's a bunch of bullshit. The difference between a modest but good system and a 'cost-no-object-no-compromise' system is maybe 10% or 15%. Spending $80,0000 on speakers to get that small level of improvement is stupid. But the whole audio industry has us jacked up, trying to somehow find thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on stuff that in reality makes a (at best) modest improvement.
We've lost the concept of "ENOUGH". At what point is your system good enough? At what point is your level of enjoyment enough? At what point do you stop bleeding cash and say enough? For myself, the answer to those questions is "Now".
Great post Tyson!!
I don't chastise anyone who seeks the last few percent as I have done this myself. Whatever makes someone happy is what I feel. My current stance is user friendliness and good sound. When I do have time to listen I want to relax and enjoy.
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Tyson . . . very well stated. We should have a "Like" button similar to Facebook. :thumb: (guess we do)
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Maybe Jason will but I won't. If there were gear out there that was super-amazing-awesome that I could lust after and try to save for to have at home, maybe. But there just isn't. If going to 10 years of RMAF and having a ton of crazy audio buddies locally has taught me anything, it's that there's an upper limit (a ceiling) to what's actually possible for Hi Fi Audio to reproduce. And it's not all that much higher than what people with modest but good quality systems already have.
Part of the problem is that reviewers have led us to believe that if we could just manage to swing buying a "cost no object" or "no compromise" component or system, that the heavens will open and the angels will sing to us. And that's a bunch of bullshit. The difference between a modest but good system and a 'cost-no-object-no-compromise' system is maybe 10% or 15%. Spending $80,0000 on speakers to get that small level of improvement is stupid. But the whole audio industry has us jacked up, trying to somehow find thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on stuff that in reality makes a (at best) modest improvement.
We've lost the concept of "ENOUGH". At what point is your system good enough? At what point is your level of enjoyment enough? At what point do you stop bleeding cash and say enough? For myself, the answer to those questions is "Now".
There's a lot of truth to that, but just to play devil's advocate I can modify my WRX to keep up with or beat dedicated sports cars that cost many times it's price. But that doesn't really make my WRX it's equal... there's something to be said for designs unrestrained by budget and only limited by the imagination. It allows designers much more freedom to do whatever they please and often leads to technological advancement. I think it's great some people can afford to purchase these over-the-top systems and allow the designers the luxury of continuing to work on advancing the state of the art rather than simply engineering to a price point.
A perfect example is the Pioneer S-1EX speakers I'm listening to right now. This speaker results from the freedom Andrew Jones was given to design an nearly $100k speaker, it is a version of it that is scaled down and made more affordable. But without the freedom to design the TAD Reference 1s the Pioneer S-1s wouldn't be the same speaker, probably not nearly as good.
On a different topic, the reason this is going on is because people have the money to buy big systems and small systems, the middle is largely out of the hobby. This is a completely different game vs 20 years ago, and it's a reflection of our society and not necessarily the industries fault. You have to understand people in the industry are desperately trying to appeal to what people want and make that item for them, it's not the industry that is dictating what's for sale. For instance, I was recently talking to a gentleman that makes amps in the 6-figure range and he said he only made the top-end crazy-expensive amps because his market demanded it. The fact is, what's going on in audio is a mirror of what's happening in our society. And it's not just audio... any luxury industry is facing the exact same issues.
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Dave pretty much said what I was going to. It's hard to blame an industry for prices when it's the consumer that dictates what sells and how high the ceiling is.
Audio.is a hobby. No different than wanting the best cars, over the top house or even a $50k watch. The differences are in the fine details. I dont think this will ever change for any luxury industry which is what high end audio is....a luxury. Some want and can afford the best. It's been this way since the beginning of time.
What I don't like to see is when consumers complain about the price of luxury items. There always has been and always will.be several tiers of product in every industry. I'd like to have a Hummer but my budget keeps me in a Jeep but I don't think it's the automotive industry's fault that I can't afford a Hummer.
We all buy or build what we can afford.
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Bill and Dave, I appreciate your perspective, but it's not one that I share.
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Dave pretty much said what I was going to. It's hard to blame an industry for prices when it's the consumer that dictates what sells and how high the ceiling is.
Audio.is a hobby. No different than wanting the best cars, over the top house or even a $50k watch. The differences are in the fine details. I dont think this will ever change for any luxury industry which is what high end audio is....a luxury. Some want and can afford the best. It's been this way since the beginning of time.
What I don't like to see is when consumers complain about the price of luxury items. There always has been and always will.be several tiers of product in every industry. I'd like to have a Hummer but my budget keeps me in a Jeep but I don't think it's the automotive industry's fault that I can't afford a Hummer.
We all buy or build what we can afford.
High cost doesn't mean quality or better. Sorry. In fact, in this hobby, it's usually the opposite. It's total shit and overpriced.
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I certainly agree that high price does not [always] equal higher quality.
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High cost doesn't mean quality or better. Sorry. In fact, in this hobby, it's usually the opposite. It's total shit and overpriced.
Agreed, but that shouldn't condemn the entire industry. You're painting with too broad a brush I think...
And Tyson, I also see the need for society to curb consumption, reduce pollution, move toward sustainable agriculture, etc. but there needs to be a balance. Personally, I feel the balance is pretty far off but that's how it is right now. Condemning the audio industry for the public's buying habits and our failing economic system isn't realistic.
Then there's always perspective... I mean, compared to flying jets as a hobby even the largest audio system is peanuts. :)
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I'm not talking about rich people, I'm talking about average joe's, and the desire for the average joe to have some of these cost no object pieces of gear. The question, to me, is "what does that get you"? The answer, at least as far as I see it is "not much".
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I don't chastise anyone who seeks the last few percent as I have done this myself. Whatever makes someone happy is what I feel. My current stance is user friendliness and good sound. When I do have time to listen I want to relax and enjoy.
Exactly where I am too Joel, in terms of priorities. I've been down all those roads. I scored speakers I never thought I'd own, then jumped on the convenience of an LIO, and easy access to great music with an Aries, and have been rewarded with very good (enough) sound and a system I can enjoy whenever I turn it on. I'm probably not quite done just yet thanks to allure of the new VR120, but the chase is certainly much less compelling now.
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I'm not talking about rich people, I'm talking about average joe's, and the desire for the average joe to have some of these cost no object pieces of gear. The question, to me, is "what does that get you"? The answer, at least as far as I see it is "not much".
The bigger problem to me is about what we are arguing. Rarely are we ever discussing data based facts. With so much of the talk being subjective we are bound to go no where and will solve nothing in the journey. With no defined criteria to judge against we will continue to speak in circles. Some get tired of this and decide it's time to get off the ride. Others jump on to see where it will take them.
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The bigger problem to me is about what we are arguing. Rarely are we ever discussing data based facts. With so much of the talk being subjective we are bound to go no where and will solve nothing in the journey. With no defined criteria to judge against we will continue to speak in circles. Some get tired of this and decide it's time to get off the ride. Others jump on to see where it will take them.
I vehemently agree with you! Haha. I think part of the problem is that back in the 50's and 60's, there were a ton of people that would build kits and had at least a passing familiarity with electronics and design options/choices. So they made better informed decisions. Nowadays it's all mysterious black boxes that produce sound "somehow". That collective wisdom has been lost and it's too bad because I think that could have prevented a lot of the ills that hifi audio has now.
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I learn long time ago,i don't know who said this "trying to enjoy what you have instead of going after something you can't have otherwise you can't never have enough" same thing apply to this hobby.
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If there was such thing as an audio saint, it would be Tyson.
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(https://38.media.tumblr.com/53e6f6e2d7bc22ad58e896865539c289/tumblr_inline_mm6t6oIKHG1qz4rgp.gif)
:lol:
I'm with Tyson. :thumb:
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If there was such thing as an audio saint, it would be Tyson.
And if there is such a thing as an audio sinner it would be Pez! Hahahahaha :icon_twisted:
But thank you :) And it was great seeing you at the show and shooting the sh!t even if just for a little bit.
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/53e6f6e2d7bc22ad58e896865539c289/tumblr_inline_mm6t6oIKHG1qz4rgp.gif)
:lol:
I'm with Tyson. :thumb:
I literally LOL'd :lol:
I hope my message is not coming across as defeatist. If anything I think it's hopeful - if you have a moderately good system already, you should just sit back and enjoy it! That new cable or DAC or conditioner or more expensive speaker or whatever, it's not going to make you any happier. Think about it. You've been swapping gear for years now. Are you fundamentally happier now than you were 5 years ago? Probably not! And if you are not, why on earth do you think any future swaps or acquisitions will make you happier? Stop. Just Stop.
Be joyous and grateful for the amazing system you already have. You already have something the vast majority of people will never have, just sit back and revel in that knowledge. Stop reading the audio press. Stop reading other people's opinions. Your level of happiness and satisfaction will be much higher if you do, I promise you.
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I'm not talking about rich people, I'm talking about average joe's, and the desire for the average joe to have some of these cost no object pieces of gear. The question, to me, is "what does that get you"? The answer, at least as far as I see it is "not much".
Ah, shopping addiction... definitely a huge societal issue, but nobody's fault but the addict. Most people are to a degree, I am... :icon_twisted: We need to consume to survive, but again it's a question of balance.
Honestly there's nothing wrong with pursuing one's interests and hobbies. If I never delved into the realm of hifi improvements I wouldn't be where I am now. Autos are ridiculously expensive and if I didn't blow a ton of cash on them I wouldn't have opened a welding and auto shop, and I might not have gotten my engineering degree, and well, it goes on. To some point my interests and hobbies define who I am and have shaped my life. I think there are more important things than saving cash, namely doing what you want to do with your life. I hope that money will follow. I mean, that Mr Money Mustache forum is full of folks who hate their jobs and are just counting down the years until retirement. FUCK THAT!! That's living like an indentured servant.
For me being Buddhist it's a question of balance. I've gone a couple years without making audio upgrades and until I needed a reference for my job I had the same system for 10 years making incremental improvements that didn't cost me much. Even though I'm more of a DIY guy and won't spend the cash on most commercial audio stuff I still enjoy going to shows and experiencing all the amazing systems. Interest in hobbies comes and goes, no need to condemn it just because interest is waning right now. Maybe later you'll feel like doing something different, maybe you'll never change a thing... either way you can still go to audio shows and just have fun talking to your friends and hearing different systems with no intention of spending any money.
I can agree the last couple percent of performance costs a fortune, for most definitely not worth it. :green:
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- if you have a moderately good system already, you should just sit back and enjoy it! That new cable or DAC or conditioner or more expensive speaker or whatever, it's not going to make you any happier. Think about it. You've been swapping gear for years now. Are you fundamentally happier now than you were 5 years ago? Probably not! And if you are not, why on earth do you think any future swaps or acquisitions will make you happier? Stop. Just Stop.
Don't forget -- trading out gear is a huge part of the fun of being an audiophile. It's the thrill of the hunt that we enjoy more than the music itself. That's the reason we're called, "audiophiles" instead of "musicphiles."
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I can agree the last couple percent of performance costs a fortune, for most definitely not worth it. :green:
But how are you going to be able to hear that extra 2% of the micro-dynamics, imaging, emotion, and sense of space in a recording (that was created by close-mic'ing and using a $70 microphone through a mid-grade preamp, mixed with digital plugins to add reverb and effects, then brick-wall mastered so it sounds "loud" while killing all dynamic range) if it's not through a $45k preamp, $100k speakers, and $3k worth of cables? <sarcasm>
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I don't understand why lists like this one get people so upset.
I also don't understand why some people are unable to express themselves without using foul language.
Stop reading other people's opinions.
Well, we finally agree on something. I appreciate your RMAF pictures, but I never read your opinions.
Here's the Best of Show from TAS Reviewer Steven Stone:
Best Sound (cost no object)
Headphones: Audeze LC-4 ($3995) and The King amplifier ($3995).
System: Constellation Virgo III preamplifier ($30,000), DC filter for Virgo III ($5000), Cygnus media server/DAC ($36,000), DC filter for Cygnus ($5000), Centaur II monoblocks ($80,000/pr.), Wilson Audio Alexia loudspeakers ($52,000/pr.), Nordost Odin 2 interconnects and loudspeaker cables, Artesania equipment racks, Stillpoints’ Acoustic Treatment panels.
(http://media.tas.zeitpress.com/articles/images/ss-12-constellation_system.jpg)
Best Sound (for the money)
Fostex T-50RP headphones ($179) After seeing modifiers use their drivers Fostex decided to revise the 50 series, using the same drivers but incorporating many enclosure improvements.
Most Significant Product Introduction
The debut of a new headphone-testing suite featuring the G.R.A.S. Ear coupler and Audio Precision APX555 that can measure below the human threshold for the entire frequency range, except for a small window in the upper midrange.
Most Significant Trend
More and more options for headphones, portable players, and cables to connect the two.
Most Coveted Product
Audeze The King headphone amplifier ($3999). This full-sized headphone amplifier, designed by Bascom King, sounded effortless driving Audeze’s superb new LDC-4 ($3999) flagship headphones.
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I don't understand why lists like this one get people so upset.
I also don't understand why some people are unable to express themselves without using foul language.
Well, we finally agree on something. I appreciate your RMAF pictures, but I never read your opinions.
Here's the Best of Show from TAS Reviewer Steven Stone:
Best Sound (cost no object)
Headphones: Audeze LC-4 ($3995) and The King amplifier ($3995).
System: Constellation Virgo III preamplifier ($30,000), DC filter for Virgo III ($5000), Cygnus media server/DAC ($36,000), DC filter for Cygnus ($5000), Centaur II monoblocks ($80,000/pr.), Wilson Audio Alexia loudspeakers ($52,000/pr.), Nordost Odin 2 interconnects and loudspeaker cables, Artesania equipment racks, Stillpoints’ Acoustic Treatment panels.
(http://media.tas.zeitpress.com/articles/images/ss-12-constellation_system.jpg)
Best Sound (for the money)
Fostex T-50RP headphones ($179) After seeing modifiers use their drivers Fostex decided to revise the 50 series, using the same drivers but incorporating many enclosure improvements.
Most Significant Product Introduction
The debut of a new headphone-testing suite featuring the G.R.A.S. Ear coupler and Audio Precision APX555 that can measure below the human threshold for the entire frequency range, except for a small window in the upper midrange.
Most Significant Trend
More and more options for headphones, portable players, and cables to connect the two.
Most Coveted Product
Audeze The King headphone amplifier ($3999). This full-sized headphone amplifier, designed by Bascom King, sounded effortless driving Audeze’s superb new LDC-4 ($3999) flagship headphones.
Against my better judgement I unblocked you to read your post. But I'm very glad I did! Did you just agree with me that we should stop reading other people's opinions and then post a giant opinion piece from Steven Stone around best in show? I literally LOL'd when I saw that :lol:
I'll say it again for the cheap seats - I post my opinions but I acknowledge that I am biased and flawed. And no one should take my opinions very seriously.
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Before I would quote SS's opinion on something like this I would go see if I even liked the sound of the system he picked. You might have a very different opinion from his upon hearing this assortment of gear.
Scotty
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Don't forget -- trading out gear is a huge part of the fun of being an audiophile. It's the thrill of the hunt that we enjoy more than the music itself. That's the reason we're called, "audiophiles" instead of "musicphiles."
I think that's very astute and something I agree with 100%. I guess this means I'm no longer an audiophile... Hmmm, I'm not sure how I feel about that, it's been a part of me for so long. Although, thinking about it a bit more - if I have an audiophile system and I use it, am I still an audiophile even if I don't change out gear? Or is selling old gear and buying new gear a necessary part of being an audiophile?
Ah, shopping addiction... definitely a huge societal issue, but nobody's fault but the addict. Most people are to a degree, I am... :icon_twisted: We need to consume to survive, but again it's a question of balance.
Honestly there's nothing wrong with pursuing one's interests and hobbies. If I never delved into the realm of hifi improvements I wouldn't be where I am now. Autos are ridiculously expensive and if I didn't blow a ton of cash on them I wouldn't have opened a welding and auto shop, and I might not have gotten my engineering degree, and well, it goes on. To some point my interests and hobbies define who I am and have shaped my life. I think there are more important things than saving cash, namely doing what you want to do with your life. I hope that money will follow. I mean, that Mr Money Mustache forum is full of folks who hate their jobs and are just counting down the years until retirement. FUCK THAT!! That's living like an indentured servant.
For me being Buddhist it's a question of balance. I've gone a couple years without making audio upgrades and until I needed a reference for my job I had the same system for 10 years making incremental improvements that didn't cost me much. Even though I'm more of a DIY guy and won't spend the cash on most commercial audio stuff I still enjoy going to shows and experiencing all the amazing systems. Interest in hobbies comes and goes, no need to condemn it just because interest is waning right now. Maybe later you'll feel like doing something different, maybe you'll never change a thing... either way you can still go to audio shows and just have fun talking to your friends and hearing different systems with no intention of spending any money.
I can agree the last couple percent of performance costs a fortune, for most definitely not worth it. :green:
I guess this is where we disagree - you go to shows and experience amazing systems, while I don't. The systems I experience are good to very good, mostly, with a very few being great. There's not a huge difference in sound quality between top of the line stuff and very good quality less expensive stuff.
However, one thing that lots of money DOES buy you is really good fit and finish. If you are looking to spend a lot of money on audio, it will definitely buy you something substantially better from an aesthetic and fit/finish standpoint, but not so much better from an aural standpoint. And it's been this way for years. For decades.
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no one should take my opinions very seriously.
We agree again.
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Don't forget -- trading out gear is a huge part of the fun of being an audiophile. It's the thrill of the hunt that we enjoy more than the music itself. That's the reason we're called, "audiophiles" instead of "musicphiles."
I've done a bunch of gear swapping, but it was much more to experience all of the different "flavors" of audio.
That churn really helped me find what I liked, and what works best for the majority of music that I like.
I'm pretty far off the mainstream, preferring to either build or have significant input in how someone else is building something for me. Prefer tubes, OB, vinyl when possible, DSD if possible, but also get a lot of enjoyment out of Redbook.
The shows I've been to I've enjoyed more for meeting the people, and being introduced to music I haven't heard before, than for the gear, although I enjoy that part too.
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The whole human condition of nothing ever being good enough, envy, diminishing returns, and the thrill of the hunt are all factors in being an audiophile.
Agree that best of show type of awards cannot be legitimately based on show conditions. If you already really like a piece and it's at the show - it wins. :roll:
For years, I too have been walking into shops/shows and immediately dismiss the sound 97% of the time (compared to what I have at home), partially due to proud papa syndrome and conditioning, but also because I've selected the gear I like and have a good room. So the value I find in attending shows is to talk with the manufacturers, see the piece "in person," and leave satisfied with what I have at home. The last time I heard a system I liked at a shop the speakers cost 20 times of mine (not necessarily better, just liked and they had less bass than mine). To my ear, most systems sound "cartoonish" (primary colors filling in the spaces between black lines, better suited for A/V effects with no texture, no hues, no blending, and no timbral distinctions).
The most impressive system I heard at the 2015 Axpona show was a tiny $600 integrated amp and speakers rig from Napa Acoustics. It simply sounded like music, filled a large cubic shaped room to satisfying levels, and did nothing wrong. Trying to do too much is a trap that nearly all high-end systems are attempting and usually it's the room that is the limiting factor (poorly shaped, too small). If the room is of proper shape and size (not outrageous), treatments (band-aids) become very secondary IMO.
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I don't understand why lists like this one get people so upset.
Because awards like these magically end up going to manufactures who also happen to spend lots of money in certain magazines.
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Maybe Jason will but I won't. If there were gear out there that was super-amazing-awesome that I could lust after and try to save for to have at home, maybe. But there just isn't. If going to 10 years of RMAF and having a ton of crazy audio buddies locally has taught me anything, it's that there's an upper limit (a ceiling) to what's actually possible for Hi Fi Audio to reproduce. And it's not all that much higher than what people with modest but good quality systems already have.
Part of the problem is that reviewers have led us to believe that if we could just manage to swing buying a "cost no object" or "no compromise" component or system, that the heavens will open and the angels will sing to us. And that's a bunch of bullshit. The difference between a modest but good system and a 'cost-no-object-no-compromise' system is maybe 10% or 15%. Spending $80,0000 on speakers to get that small level of improvement is stupid. But the whole audio industry has us jacked up, trying to somehow find thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on stuff that in reality makes a (at best) modest improvement.
We've lost the concept of "ENOUGH". At what point is your system good enough? At what point is your level of enjoyment enough? At what point do you stop bleeding cash and say enough? For myself, the answer to those questions is "Now".
+1
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Exactly where I am too Joel, in terms of priorities. I've been down all those roads. I scored speakers I never thought I'd own, then jumped on the convenience of an LIO, and easy access to great music with an Aries, and have been rewarded with very good (enough) sound and a system I can enjoy whenever I turn it on. I'm probably not quite done just yet thanks to allure of the new VR120, but the chase is certainly much less compelling now.
+1
With young kids and a changing lifestyle to boot, I am migrating away from uber fringey stuff. The LIO seems mighty tempting....
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+1
With young kids and a changing lifestyle to boot, I am migrating away from uber fringey stuff. The LIO seems mighty tempting....
And that is precisely why I try and avoid audio shows and dealers!!! There's always something (that I can't afford) which would do the trick quite nicely...
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+1
With young kids and a changing lifestyle to boot, I am migrating away from uber fringey stuff. The LIO seems mighty tempting....
David S will surely back me up on this 8)
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Because awards like these magically end up going to manufactures who also happen to spend lots of money in certain magazines.
I understand that it seems like a big conspiracy, but in reality these manufacturers are run by extraterrestrial visitors that have been controlling reviewer's minds since they had Al Gore created the Internet.
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This is part of why, on a personal level, I'm disengaging from audio in general. With the demise of the local Brick and Mortar stores, our ability to demo gear directly is seriously impeded, and all we are left is opinion pieces on the internet. Manufacturers understand this and try to build buzz by woo-ing the publications which can write reviews with the implicit understanding that ad dollars will flow. The publications can also vote on BS awards like this one, building further buzz, re-inforcing the relationship, leading to more sales for the manufacturer and more ad dollars for the publication. In this game, everyone wins. Except the customers.
Anyone present at the awards ceremony (like me) would have been aware of the cacophony of voices drowning out the live music, which was really pretty fine--what you could hear of it. Until the awards were being announced, at which point silence prevailed as necks were craned and ears attuned to the dulcet tones of awards.
These are the same folks who speak of music as something soul lifting and holy. But listen to it? Please!!!
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"The First Annual RMAF HiFi Press Awards were a good start, but far more work is needed to refine the concept."
http://www.stereophile.com/content/rmaf-2015-partys-over-partys-just-begun##A1rpGgwVVDrSrc3G.97