[JLM]

I have an iMac for audio/general use, currently using iTunes (want to add Pure Music), everything backed up with Time Machine, running a long/cheap optical to my system (PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium Integrated, Brines Acoustics M18-F200 speakers, Scott Endler modded Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ/DAC, dedicated room).  Trying to save $$, but investigating source upgrade while also shopping for cell phone and tablet/laptop (for consulting in my near retirement). 

Would a Mini with short/quality optical sound "significantly" better?

Any hot rumors of a new Mini (current version is ancient in computer terms) and if so, should I wait?

Would USB with Mini sound "significantly" better than optical (currently shopping for a DAC too)?

Would want to run the Mini completely naked (no keyboard, mouse, monitor/TV); so how do I set it up?

What devices could I conveniently control the Mini with (iPhone, iPad, or Mac Air)?

Would I ever need keyboard, mouse, and/or monitor down the road (upgrades/reboots)?

And I am a complete computer dunce, so use small words in short sentences.  TIA

[oskar]

I have been wanting to go the Mini route as well.
Currently all my music is stored on portable drives connected to my Imac.
I run PureMusic and send through Airplay wirelessly to an Airport express.
From AE a short optical cable runs to my DAC and presto I have tunes. Super simple.
I've heard plenty about the jitter that the AE introduces so I've moved the Imac next to the stereo and connected with USB.
I thought it sounded better. So I wonder whether a dedicated mac wired with USB would be better still? Probably.

[oskar]

And I use Remote on my iphone to control.
I think you would still need some kind of monitor and mouse?

[lokie]

"Would a Mini with short/quality optical sound "significantly" better?"

Probably, but how long is your current cable? May be one of those questions only you could answer w experimenting. It would be an easy and cheap experiment.

Any hot rumors of a new Mini (current version is ancient in computer terms) and if so, should I wait?
Conflicting views on this question but I doubt there is anything on the horizon that I would wait for.  Some swear that the MM'09's w old Pentiums sound the best. Some say the new maxed out i7's are the way to go. I decided to buy used on Craigslist and picked up a 2009 MM for $200 and put in additional RAM (8gigs) and a SSD Hard Drive (120G).  Works wonderfully. Is a $1200 maxed out new MM better? Dunno for sure but I don't lose any sleep over it. It probably sounds different but not better which is my opinion and open for debate. It is very difficult to A/B computer set ups.

Would USB with Mini sound "significantly" better than optical (currently shopping for a DAC too)?

USB is the audiophile cable of choice. The consensus is that Optical has more jitter (bad). Two things to remember if you go the USB route: 1. You will need a USB/SPDIF converter (a whole nudder subject but easy to set up, ut some DAC's have USB input) and 2. You will want to put your hard drive on the fire wire port (older MM's) which means your HD will need fire wire. Not sure how audiophiles are managing the ports on the newer models as I think USB 3.0 ports have replaced the FW?? Something to understand before you buy.

Would want to run the Mini completely naked (no keyboard, mouse, monitor/TV); so how do I set it up?
My advice is to connect keyboard, mouse, monitor/TV for the first month or so while simultaneously using the remote (the actual name of the App that will be on the your device). Then once you get everything stable, unplug and remove them. I won't go into the actual set up procedures but rest assured it is very easy.

What devices could I conveniently control the Mini with (iPhone, iPad, or Mac Air)?
All those will work fine (Mac Air?) and are a joy to use and easy to set up. Once you have the device set up on your home's wifi, you will go to the Apple store (on the respective device) and download this http://REMOTE APP

Would I ever need keyboard, mouse, and/or monitor down the road (upgrades/reboots)?
Yes but from the beginning set up and less down the road but intermittently you'll want/need the capability..

And I am a complete computer dunce, so use small words in short sentences.  OK.

On more piece of advice. Don't get paralysis by analysis. Go cheap early in the process and get used to using it and then think about upgrading once you become more experienced through actual experience. There are so many conflicting  views on all this stuff it will make your head spin.

[JLM]

Thanks for the advices.

My current optical cable (from my iMac) is 35 feet long, so it'd take a at least one repeater and two USB cables.

Current DACs only have optical inputs, so to even try USB would require a new DAC.

Can't an iPad or Mac Air be used instead of having to buy/setup/hang onto monitor, keyboard, and mouse?  (Defeats the purpose of small/simple IMO.)

Don't have a small/extra monitor, TV, keyboard, mouse, iPad, Mac Air, iTouch, or even an iPhone. So it'd be hard to go bit by bit.


This is all getting too complicated for me.  Maybe I'll just stay with my current setup (that I'm happy with) or just try an AE instead.

[bladesmith]

If you have an android tablet or mac tablet/laptop.  You can control your iTunes (with your wifi) with an app call "unified remote". It does cost some money, I bought it and use it. You can choose a playlist with the app and control volume, etc, etc. But, it won't do everything.

[lokie]

Thanks for the advices.
You are welcome.

My current optical cable (from my iMac) is 35 feet long, so it'd take a at least one repeater and two USB cables.
If you can't move it closer then just use what you have. USB is not advised at this length.

Current DACs only have optical inputs, so to even try USB would require a new DAC.
OK, then just use what you have.

Can't an iPad or Mac Air be used instead of having to buy/setup/hang onto monitor, keyboard, and mouse?  (Defeats the purpose of small/simple IMO.)
You can buy a  mouse and keyboard for $20 and a monitor for next to nothing. Yes you can use "remote" software and control the computer via device, but I can tell you from experience that it will much less frustrating to use a mouse, keyboard and monitor for setting up and occasional maintenance.

Don't have a small/extra monitor, TV, keyboard, mouse, iPad, Mac Air, iTouch, or even an iPhone. So it'd be hard to go bit by bit.
Then don't do it.


This is all getting too complicated for me.  Maybe I'll just stay with my current setup (that I'm happy with) or just try an AE instead.
OK.

[jarcher]

Lokie has pretty much said all I would from personal experience.

I'd just say if the idea is to improve sound quality, use USB instead of optical and get a better DAC that supports USB.  That'll make a bigger sound quality difference than going from Imac to Mac Mini if your budget is limited.  Good DACs are cheap these days.  Even a $500 new one is likely to be a step up from any DAC modded or not from a few years ago. 

If the whole idea of using a computer as a music server makes you overall anxious, then I'd just get a Sony HAP S1 music server for $1K.  Yup - a Sony.  Actually sounds good and does all-in-one.  You'll need to use a computer to load it up w/ music, but that's it. 

http://store.sony.com/500gb-hi-res-music-player-system-zid27-HAPS1//cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio

Just ignore the internal amp and use it as a DAC / media server. 

Computer based audio is not THAT difficult anymore, but I can appreciate many people just want a music device without having to worry about the maintenance and other issues with a traditional computer.  The Sony & Bluesound Vault are about the cheapest but decent all-in-one device's on the market now at around $1K.  The Sony is probably a better a stand alone DAC vs the Bluesound. 

[JLM]

Thanks again for the advices.

Budget cap is roughly $3k to move from my iMac/35 ft optical/old DAC.  I already use a computer as a music server in the main rig and a $100 Logitech UE "smart radio" in the living room.  The UE (except for reboots with every power glitch to retrieve full features) is a delightful product (small/simple with a satisfying sound).  Perhaps Bluesound is a high-end version of my UE, but from the reviews it'd need a ethernet cable to insure stability and a separate DAC to provide the SQ I'm seeking.  And unfortunately it's only digital output is optical, so it's 3 steps forward and 2 steps back.  I have no problems with Sony, but didn't want to be locked into a one box solution and out of the Apple environment.

I had a modded Squeeze Box 2, but it was way too glitchy to live with.  It's always frustrating when someone says, "Computer audio bla, bla, bla, is not that difficult."  After my run in with the SB, it's hard not to tune out when I read that.  Because if that were true, why do all the associated issues come up (even Bluesound has over 100 FAQs on their website)? 

Man landed on the moon using a slide rule 45 years ago, but now with computers we can't get man out of Earth orbit.  So it seems with high-end computer audio (without paying a frightful price).

[jarcher]

Bluesound is probably much as you described it : a rung up from UE, but not the ultimate media / dac device.  It will go hi rez though at 24/192 internal &  at least 24 / 96 or whatever the god's say the optical might handle. In that respect it's better than Sonos. 

The comment re PC audio is that it's not as difficult as some make it out to meant regarding set up and use, but it often CAN be a PITA because of bugs / crashes / maintenance etc.  But then again, no audio reproduction device is perfect - vinyl has a lot more hassles, even CD players skip, break down, or have their user experience issues (Rega Apollo anyone?).  Pretty much any digital media player device is a computer to one degree or another.  So the question becomes what's going to be provide you with the best experience : SQ + ease of use. 

In your case being familiar w/ Mac + PM, I don't think your necessarily get the most bang for the buck changing to a Mac Mini vs your Imac.  In my experience you'll have to drop another $1000-1500 on the mini in mods + the purchase price to start really reaping a benefit vs the Imac.   Which means you'll be out $2K -$3K.  At that point I think you're better off with a high end dedicated media streamer / DAC like either the Sony HAPZ1ES or better yet the Aurender X100 ($2900 - 3490). I'd spend the extra money on the Aurender - it's not just a fancy case.  It has both real high end hardware + excellent software.   

The lateral move is the new Auralic Aries, which even the highest end model is $1600 or so.  You will have to also budget another $300 -$500 for a NAS as it's a renderer, not a server.  Even that might be a better move vs the modded mac mini, unless your also planning on using the mini for video.

[planet10]

I use a dedicated macMini for source. I use a FireWire DAC (a class of DACs even scarcer now than when i got mine), and a USB external drive. If you use a USB DAC then a FireWire drive is called for (keep the devices on different buses)

I use my MacBook Pro with Screen Sharing to control it, but still find that i occasionally need to use the keyboard/mouse on the mini. I have the mini connected to the TV as a monitor.

Pure Music/Pure Vinyl makes a decided improvement, a modestly priced "audiophile" Firewire cable made similar improvements but with a lower magnitude.

As far as performance, the slowest macMini you can get should do the job, 8 GB RAM is highly recommended. The differences between old (external PS) & new mini (internal PS) is likely swamped by how you configure the SW on the mini, and to even pick up on all of the subtlest stuff will require a system with high DDR.

dave

[jarcher]

I do USB on the DAC / Firewire on the external HD (or ethernet)........same result - keep each bus clean and performance is better.

I use the free VLC app to remote screen control when Pure Music inevitably crashes & need to restart it.  Otherwise the free Apple app "Remote" works fine for headless.

PM sounds a lot better than stock itunes.  Agreed that software + a good USB cable can make the most difference.  I use the now defunct XLO Ultra Plus USB cable, which is phenomenal.

There is no "magic Mini" - and considering that used one have way too high a resale value and computers tend to die somewhere after 4 years, anyone considering a Mac Mini should just get a new entry level one @ $550 or so and max out the easy self install memory vs overpaying Apple for it.  I do NOT suggest any mac older than a few years if you want to do DSD & super hi rez.  My 2007 intel Imac w/ maxed memory will occasional stutter if you do anything other than music.  Why deal w/ that if there's no substantial $ to be saved?

For a great Mac Mini music server FAQ see :

http://www.mojo-audio.com/2010-or-newer-mac-mini-upgrades/

And choose the "FAQ" tab.  It cover "Magic Minis" as well.  No relationship to Ben @ Mojo : just a customer.  He is in my mind THE authority on all things Mac for music servers.

[JLM]

Thanks again guys, especially jarcher.  BTW this machine would be dedicated to 2-channel audio.

Being a speaker guy and a purist I replaced the baffle step circuit in my single driver speakers with DEQ, so as much as I keep drifting towards the simple single box solution, it looks like I'm "stuck" with a mini with PureMusic. 

The Mojo-Music link in interesting as I've also been looking at dB Audio (similar but without the power supply tweaks on the mini) and Wavelength Audio (all non-oversampling DACs in accordance with my purist roots).

[jarcher]

i can't say enough good things about Ben @ Mojo.  The man knows about as much as you can about macs and modding / optimizing them for sound and is very responsive and detailed about pre & post sales support. 

The quality of the power supply with all things digital is one of those key factors that separates the OK from the very good.  You don't want a noisy switching power supply in general and much less inside the case w/ the other components. After I was done w/ my Mac mini it was just the motherboard, memory, SSHD, fan and Mojo's internal filter module / DC board.  That is, I even yanked the wifi / bluetooth antennae board (though I could have just left it disconnected).