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Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => EVOKE Loudspeakers => Topic started by: John Casler on 4 Nov 2017, 03:11 pm

Title: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 4 Nov 2017, 03:11 pm
I have for many years employed a LISTENING CHAMBER to produce a considerable level of sonic isolation.

This means a HUGE reduction in reflected sounds from side walls and ceiling.

This produces an INCREDIBLE clarity, transparency, imaging, and soundstage.  However it is rather obtrusive and not the best looking device.

I may have just found an alternative in this Chair and or Loveseat. 

(https://secure.img1-fg.wfcdn.com/im/57200318/resize-h800-p1-w800%5Ecompr-r85/3778/37783843/Morph+Series+Soft+Seating+Loveseat.jpg)

(https://secure.img1-fg.wfcdn.com/im/52956058/resize-h800%5Ecompr-r85/1757/17571967/Morph+Series+Soft+Seating+Convertible+Chair.jpg)

LOOK HERE (https://www.wayfair.com/furniture/pdp/ofm-morph-series-soft-seating-convertible-chair-of2178.html?PiID%5B%5D=14957981&source=hotdeals&piid=14957981)

And it is convertible to a conventional chair for HT use, where you want to have sounds from different planes.

Since I am a dealer, I am going to inquire about offering these to my clients after I try them and see if they fill the bill.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: fredgarvin on 4 Nov 2017, 03:26 pm
It will be a matter of only weeks before someone develops the motorized model and cruises the aisles of Walmart.


(http://www.hostpic.org/images/1711042055140112.jpg) (http://www.hostpic.org/view.php?filename=1711042055140112.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Letitroll98 on 4 Nov 2017, 03:30 pm
Hey John, how's your day?  I have some heavily upholstered antique barrel back chairs that wrap around somewhat like your example and thought they'd be great for taming early reflections.  It sounded Horrible.  All muddy and confused.  I went back to my minimalist recliner, no wings, light padding, and the tone and soundstage were back.  Ymmv.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 4 Nov 2017, 03:38 pm
Yes, leather and vinyl are "quite" reflective of mids and highs.  So your chair actually "added" immediate reflections, and thus the lousy sound.  This, by itself will have the same (or worse) qualities.


For High Performance Listening I anticipate needing to drape the back and sides with a folded "moving blankets", (or some such) which should take 15 seconds to place, to damp that out.  With the chair version maybe even draped over the top.

This furniture is actually for isolation from distractions and privacy in a non-private setting, and not sound isolation.

I just see the potential, with a far less (girlfriend friendly) intrusive tent like I have now.

I will report, and post photos if I take the plunge.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Wind Chaser on 4 Nov 2017, 04:17 pm
I have for many years employed a LISTENING CHAMBER to produce a considerable level of sonic isolation.

This means a HUGE reduction in reflected sounds from side walls and ceiling.

This produces an INCREDIBLE clarity, transparency, imaging, and soundstage.  However it is rather obtrusive and not the best looking device.

I may have just found an alternative in this Chair and or Loveseat. 

(https://secure.img1-fg.wfcdn.com/im/57200318/resize-h800-p1-w800%5Ecompr-r85/3778/37783843/Morph+Series+Soft+Seating+Loveseat.jpg)

(https://secure.img1-fg.wfcdn.com/im/52956058/resize-h800%5Ecompr-r85/1757/17571967/Morph+Series+Soft+Seating+Convertible+Chair.jpg)

LOOK HERE (https://www.wayfair.com/furniture/pdp/ofm-morph-series-soft-seating-convertible-chair-of2178.html?PiID%5B%5D=14957981&source=hotdeals&piid=14957981)

No thanks, that looks too claustrophobic, not to mention ridiculous and aesthetically unappealing. Room treatments might cost more but I bet they would yield better results than sitting in some hideous solitary confinement isolation chamber.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Wind Chaser on 4 Nov 2017, 04:25 pm
Furthermore, the extruding side panels mean your speakers have to be real close together relative to the listening distance, which will produce a tiny narrow soundstage with crappy imaging.  :duh:
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Stimpy on 4 Nov 2017, 06:35 pm
Hey John,

Beautiful furniture.  Very modern industrial design.  I hope they can work for your intended purpose?  You and your cocoons!  It always makes me think of this!   :lol:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Get_Smart-Cone-of-silence.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 4 Nov 2017, 06:51 pm
Yes,  I have used  LISTENING CHAMBERS of varying types and iterations for over 3 decades, and understand the psycho-acoustics quite well, but it is only valuable (when set up properly) with the goal of "eliminating" most reflections, and improving detail, transparency, imaging and soundstage. 

As I mentioned earlier this particular piece (more the love seat) allows for the "listening chamber" to be formed for High Performance 2 channel listening, with the panels in the UP position and properly damped, or for Home Theater, with the panels DOWN.

Unless one has employed or experienced this technology, it is quite difficult to understand how it works. and even mores so the purity of how it sounds.  A simple descriptive might be the purity of headphones, with a full and complete 3-D soundstage.  And the sound will be ONLY that of what is in the recording, and not that manufactured via room reflections.

I am hoping it a perfect solution to either "taking the room out" or "adding it or surround speakers in", depending on one's needs.

But without taking the dive, I cannot vouch for the full potential.  I am "this close" to ordering and if I do, I will report.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: ohenry on 4 Nov 2017, 06:52 pm
For a more traditional look...  :lol:

(https://media.restorationhardware.com/is/image/rhis/prod1679277_S13?$PD$&illum=0&wid=650)

Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 4 Nov 2017, 06:57 pm
Hey John,

Beautiful furniture.  Very modern industrial design.  I hope they can work for your intended purpose?  You and your cocoons!  It always makes me think of this!   :lol:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/Get_Smart-Cone-of-silence.jpg)

Yes the old Cone of Silence, which strangely enough was not silent.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: srb on 4 Nov 2017, 11:45 pm
Yes the old Cone of Silence, which strangely enough was not silent.

Also could never figure out why it was called the Cone of Silence.  Cylinder ... yes, dome ... yes, but no cone in sight.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Early B. on 5 Nov 2017, 12:06 am
Buy it, John! This chair was made just for you. I'm interested in reading your review of it.

The problem is that since there's no peripheral view, someone can walk from behind and scare the bejesus out of you.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 5 Nov 2017, 12:21 am
This, is the look when the panels are lowered for normal use and Home Theater/Multi-Channel

(https://secure.img1-ag.wfcdn.com/im/38345600/resize-h800-p1-w800%5Ecompr-r85/3778/37783823/Morph+Series+Soft+Seating+Loveseat.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: 006.9 on 5 Nov 2017, 12:24 am
Pick your chair carefully if you listen to a lot of 44.1/16.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170773)
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 5 Nov 2017, 05:29 pm
Yes, Since I am a Wayfair dealer (on a very small scale) I will likely order this next week.

I hope my projections are correct as to its potential.

If it works as expected, I will be able to DEMO, "normal" listening conditions as well as Extremely HIGH PERFORMANCE conditions.

It also allows me to combine my HT and 2 channel systems which have for many years had to be separate.  :thumb:

I am going with the love seat, as it has a wider receiving vector, and I need the ability to screen films with my GF  8)

Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 5 Nov 2017, 05:43 pm
Buy it, John! This chair was made just for you. I'm interested in reading your review of it.

The problem is that since there's no peripheral view, someone can walk from behind and scare the bejesus out of you.

On my way.  Will report.

In projects like this, the ears are VERY SENSITIVE to sounds close to them.

Just take your fingers and lightly rub them together an inch from your ears and you can hear your fingerprints going over each other.

So having vinyl or leather that close without the right amount of damping will sound like crap.  Even rather damp materials like various damping means when placed close to the ear reflect considerable sound.

So the challenge will be to find, layer, or combine damping materials that are easy to put in place and remove, that will make the SONICS and Acoustics, what I know is needed.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: JohnR on 8 Nov 2017, 02:39 am
John, this raisable back/sides is going to cause acoustic problems that you then have to fix. Woudn't it be more straightforward not to put that surface up in the first place?
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 8 Nov 2017, 07:42 pm
John, this raisable back/sides is going to cause acoustic problems that you then have to fix. Woudn't it be more straightforward not to put that surface up in the first place?

I already use a "CHAMBER" like this, that I constructed, and is not convertible like this "appears" to be.

Acoustic Problems are part of Audio, but the local solution I use now (of which I hope this will duplicate) are far better and cheaper than trying to solve the problems globally (on the walls and ceiling)

That said, I have my fingers crossed as to how easy and effectively I can mimic or approximate my current acoustic chamber with this one.  The current chamber is constructed of basically large stiff cardboard containers with significant layers of various density damping.

In essense, it is an acoustic black hole.  Not anechoic, but VERY WELL damped from most frequencies.

My primary concerns with THIS Loveseat, is if the walls and corners will cause some level of standing waves or bass reflections that the present cardboard does not.  So, please know that I am not touting this as anything close to a good idea, UNLESS the damping I plan to try is used.  Without that, this would sound Awful  :duh:

I just ordered this yesterday and HOPE it will allow for the sonic isolation I am looking for, so I can combine my 2 Channel and HT Systems and easily SWITCH from one to the other by simply raising the panels, and throwing on the extra damping.

We'll see.  Until it arrives and I "actually" experiment, I am just performing mind experiments, based on my past efforts.

And I am repainting and remodeling and my significant other would not be amenable to placing huge Acoustic panels on the walls and ceiling, which would not offer the same reduction in reflection anyhow.

In 2 channel listening I just don't want to hear the Room at all.  (Headphones with a Soundstage and Imaging)  For HT, I am far less critical since ALL the sound is post production and engineering.

In any event, if it doesn't work, or I encounter a problem not clearly foreseen, there is always Plan B, which I already have on the mental drawing board.

More to come.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: JohnR on 11 Nov 2017, 06:31 am
Plan B?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_q7g0OFWD6Xg/S62sz59dkmI/AAAAAAAAAII/sqsx4A5Ggqc/s1600/huge-headphone.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 7 Dec 2017, 03:12 pm
UPDATE:

Well the LoveSeat has arrived and was finally able to unpack.

Preliminary, Quick and Dirty trial is that it will do the job intended.

The TOP DOWN use allows for the Live End/Dead End employment, and the TOP UP with easily placed Acoustic Damping works exactly as intended.

I am in the middle now of combining my 2 channel system and HT system in a remodel.

Will post pics when it is possible.  Right now I have large furniture cartons and components all over the place.

One downside/upside, is that the LoveSeat IS NOT plush and cushy comfortable.  This will likely keep me from falling asleep whilst listening, but may require some pillows for 2 hour films.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Shakeydeal on 7 Dec 2017, 05:36 pm
Quote
I am in the middle now of combining my 2 channel system and HT system in a remodel.

That in itself will give you far more problems than any room anomalies. But that's a whole other thread........


Shakey
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: woodsyi on 7 Dec 2017, 06:29 pm
UPDATE:

One downside/upside, is that the LoveSeat IS NOT plush and cushy comfortable.  This will likely keep me from falling asleep whilst listening, but may require some pillows for 2 hour films.

Definitely need pillows as love seat should be for loving, John.   :eyebrows:

As a person who has sat in your musical throne,  the "convertible" will be better for your decor! :lol:
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: JeffB on 7 Dec 2017, 10:38 pm
I want this chair, lol.
The Maxell chair.
http://bowilliams.com/2015/05/remember-blown-away-guy/
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Kenneth Patchen on 8 Dec 2017, 12:35 am
I prefer a hard and slightly slanting back myself.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172479)
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: twitch54 on 8 Dec 2017, 01:44 am
That in itself will give you far more problems than any room anomalies. But that's a whole other thread........


Shakey

hey Shakey, is that your C5 ZO6 in your avatar ?
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Shakeydeal on 8 Dec 2017, 12:00 pm
hey Shakey, is that your C5 ZO6 in your avatar ?

Yes it is.

Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: JLM on 8 Dec 2017, 12:49 pm
We all become conditioned to whatever environment we're in.  John, I believe you rather weirdly have conditioned yourself to listening in a confined/heavily padded space.  Floyd O'Toole, recognized as a modern acoustics guru, believes most of us in the western world are conditioned to typical residential spaces, so his domestic listening space is a fairly typical shared living room. 

I strongly believe that most audiophiles have invested far too much in equipment for the given rooms they use.  At least you've investigated the space itself.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 8 Dec 2017, 03:39 pm
We all become conditioned to whatever environment we're in.  John, I believe you rather weirdly have conditioned yourself to listening in a confined/heavily padded space.  Floyd O'Toole, recognized as a modern acoustics guru, believes most of us in the western world are conditioned to typical residential spaces, so his domestic listening space is a fairly typical shared living room. 

I strongly believe that most audiophiles have invested far too much in equipment for the given rooms they use.  At least you've investigated the space itself.

Hi JLM,

Yes, but it is not so much that I have conditioned myself to the reduced room sound, but that I sought it out.

I have heard and employed virtually EVERY incarnation of listening spaces over the last 45 years of serious, high performance listening.

Between setting up hundreds of systems, setting up live v/VMPS rooms, setting up recording studios, and having the liberty to experiment freely in my own environment, I have possibly a unique set of experiences and understandings to the psychoacoustical environments.

While I agree, that MOST "do" condition themselves to a room "tuned" to a pleasant sound (as they generally have no choice), I was able to pursue a more pure sonic environment, so I didn't have as much ROOM Distortions (any sound added by the room) and was able to more clearly hear the actual recorded environment much more clearly.

It was a search for the Absolute Sound, by subtracting/reducing the distortions from the space and hearing basically the DIRECT sound from the speakers.

Now, that is not to say that basically ANY set up can't be VERY enjoyable and rewarding (I posted above about how pleasing the LE/DE sonic was, and how much I enjoy it), but mine was just one of many acoustical goals to pursue.

I love High End Audio and the various pursuits to enjoy it.   :thumb:
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Wind Chaser on 8 Dec 2017, 05:20 pm
I strongly believe that most audiophiles have invested far too much in equipment for the given rooms they use.

And to top it off, they hardly bother to put any effort into the setup. :duh:
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 13 Feb 2018, 08:43 pm
UPDATE:


Well the experiment was SUCCESSFUL, but the long term goal not so much.

That is, the "convertible" function of the Love Seat with appropriate DAMPING worked flawlessly, the COMFORT was so DISMAL that it is not a viable option.   :duh:

So the search continues.
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: Hipper on 26 Aug 2018, 07:40 am
That's a shame. Worth a try though. I assume there is no way to make that chair comfortable with re-upholstering or similar?

Did you try your plan B?
Title: Re: I think I just found my NEW Listening chair
Post by: John Casler on 26 Aug 2018, 06:10 pm
Yeah Sonically it did the job, but not worth the time trouble to try and reupholster.