[Markvdv]

I don't think cheap is good word here, chinese dual mono is ~$6, two tpa's and all parts and pcb included.

[wushuliu]

I don't think cheap is good word here, chinese dual mono is ~$6, two tpa's and all parts and pcb included.

Yeah but quality costs!

[wushuliu]

Here is the link to the 'Wiener' mono/stereo group buy:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/276508-wiener-group-buy-2-stereo-pbtl-editions-available.html

What's special about group buys like these is usually once they are done they are done. The stereo 4ohm boards for instance are no longer available. Second rounds don't happen that often.  So for those folks looking to take the TPA potential to its limit here's a great opportunity that may not happen again.

[Markvdv]

True, selecting genuine, good parts cost money, more than just buying cheapest parts available on local chinese market.

Buying a prototype ampboard is basicly what you do with that groupbuy, designer didn't measure or test anything to improve a prototype to arrive at "best" 3116 ampboard. He is lazy. Just as lazy as the chinese that label speakerpolarity wrong because they didn't check.
In Canadian designers own words: I'll bang out and sell a PCB.

[KR500]

Thanks for the heads up on the group buy Wush'. Appreciate it.
Actually I had read and have  been following those posts at DIYA by forum member Marsh, but don't need another amp, although Marshes is probably better from the Sures ? doesn't seem the boards could be a "moneymaker" for him. I did think about picking one up though .
I'm pursuing the C+C Sure amp board builds here  more as a learning opportunity for my solder and construction skillsl  more than anything since there's  the low cost and tiny form, along with the high general fun factor.
The Sure amp boards  won't replace my low watt SET amp  in our main listening room , the Tube AB amp in the dormer , or the Modded Audio Source Amp 100 w/ Little dot preamp in the exercise room.
Maybe the Topping 21 for the Mac or the SMSL 36 Pro for the TV though !

[Poultrygeist]

Can you share more on what you did to the Pyramid power supply? I have a laptop brick I will be using first, but will move onto the Pyramid once I determine where everything is going to end up.

FWIW I'm using a stock Pyramid PS-3KX regulated with the new dual chip TPA3116 and really like the combination.

[wushuliu]

True, selecting genuine, good parts cost money, more than just buying cheapest parts available on local chinese market.

Buying a prototype ampboard is basicly what you do with that groupbuy, designer didn't measure or test anything to improve a prototype to arrive at "best" 3116 ampboard. He is lazy. Just as lazy as the chinese that label speakerpolarity wrong because they didn't check.
In Canadian designers own words: I'll bang out and sell a PCB.

Um. Ok.

In any case I'm just giving a heads up not looking to get into a pissing match.

[Markvdv]

I am being factual. You think a prototype is the best quality offer one can buy. It is an unique opportunity to buy something that hasn't been tested. Previous board designer made he forgot to have a gnd input. He bangs out and sells pcb's, again his own words.

[KR500]

FWIW I'm using a stock Pyramid PS-3KX regulated with the new dual chip TPA3116 and really like the combination.

Yes, that's the same one I'm using . ( Edit - oops , nope I have the 4 which is a tad more dollar) .Looks like the price dropped since I bought mine from PE quite a while ago. $22 today at that large on line retailer. Edit - the model 4 is $29-30

The Amazon review by hifidawg has the comments regarding adding a 10,000uF 16 volt capacitor to the output terminals
One commenter to the review mentioned he replaced the circuit board mounted OEM cap with Nichicons

There are 88 reviews of the unit altogether

[KR500]

I just took the cover off the Pyramid 4K PSU I'm using and the 4700uF 25 volt cap on the circuit board is by manufacturer "GD"
I'm not familiar with GD .
Would there be an improvement in replacing that cap with a Nichicon ?

[jdpas29]

Looking at power supply options for the 3110.  Is there an amperage minimum or a suggested amperage that is best for this board?  i'm thinking 15V at this point.  would like to get as much power and headroom prior to digi clipping as possible. 

thanks ahead for any help

[matt_garman]

Looking at power supply options for the 3110.  Is there an amperage minimum or a suggested amperage that is best for this board?  i'm thinking 15V at this point.  would like to get as much power and headroom prior to digi clipping as possible.

For detailed power requirements, consult the datasheet.  Look at the supply voltage versus power output, and also efficiency versus output power graphs starting on page 10.

For an example: look at page 12, figure 18 of the datasheet.  For a 15V supply, 8R load, max output power is about 20 watts (with 10% THD---this will sound bad, in practice you'll not likely get anywhere near this).  The next graph, figure 19, shows that at 20W output power, and an 18 V supply, efficiency is about 85%.  In that scenario, the amp is actually pulling 20/.85 = 24 watts from the PSU.  I believe those graphs are actually per channel, so in stereo mode, you multiply by two.  So just round up to 50 watts.

A 15V PSU capable of 50W output needs to be able to do 50W/15V = 3.33A.

That's the reasonably quick, off-the-cuff calculation... You can repeat the exercise for different speaker loads, supply voltages, etc.  Note also that it appears efficiency drops if you have an LC filter in place.

Another approach is to look at all the graphs and just consider worst-case scenario (even if it's not realistic).  Say the max power the amp can push is 40W (in PBTL mode, i.e. mono, so one channel, don't multiply by 2 as we did above).  Say efficiency is 60% (very pessimistic number), so total power draw is 66W.  Heck, let's just round up to 100W for a big safety margin.  That's just under 7 amps for a 15V supply.

To give you some anecdotal info: my speakers are about 85 dB/Watt/meter efficient.  This is for nearfield listing, which means my listening distance is right about 1 meter.  I used a free SPL meter app on my phone, and I usually listen to music around 60--70 dB.  Those are pretty modest levels.  I might touch on 80 dB on the rare occasion when I "crank it".  Hopefully it's obvious that I'm not even putting a full watt into my speakers most of the time.  There can of course be brief peaks which exceed 80 dB, but I highly doubt the speakers pull much over 5 watts at any given time.  Any more than an instant and it would simply be too loud for me.

In this arrangement, I can quite comfortably get by on a 2x8W amp.

The very first 3110 amp I used was the $10 one by Sure that Parts-Express sells.  I powered it with a 2A 12V wall-wart power supply.  I think the PSU was $12 or $15 (more than the amp!).  I never ran into power issues.

My fanciest 3110 amp (the newer Sure one, modded) used a Meanwell GS90A15-P1M PSU: 15V, 6A, 90W total output.  Way more power than I needed.

[lacro]

My fanciest 3110 amp (the newer Sure one, modded) used a Meanwell GS90A15-P1M PSU: 15V, 6A, 90W total output.  Way more power than I needed.

Hey Matt, You still listening to the Sure 3110 as your favorite or have you built something better?

[matt_garman]

Hey Matt, You still listening to the Sure 3110 as your favorite or have you built something better?

I built something else, not sure if it's better; specifically the GMARSH "Wiener" tpa3118 board.  This was from his first group buy (a stereo board).  Now's he's got a second group buy going on for mono boards.  Here's my post (#551) with pics of that build.

Is it better than my favorite Sure 3110?  That was back in April, and I can't remember if I did any A/B comparing between the Sure 3110 and the Wiener 3118.  The Wiener definitely isn't any worse, I'm certain of that.  Definitely has more headroom if I ever wanted to go louder or re-purpose it somewhere other than the desktop.

I'm sitting out the 2nd Wiener group buy (mono boards)... I almost jumped on it, but I realized I've been dabbling with tpa311x boards exclusively for nearly two years now!  I have way more than any sane person needs.  I do love 'em, but now curiosity has me wondering if there's greener pastures out there.  Even if not, I enjoy the hacking, so nothing to lose.    Going to dabble with class AB next, first a tda7297 and then maybe the Modulus 86... Maybe!

Right now my main focus is on the tda1387 x8 DAC.  I mentioned it here, but didn't get any responses.

[rhing]

Haven't been back here for a while. I still have my Wiener TPA3118 stereo amp playing in my system. Even after all this time, I still very much enjoy listening to this amp in my system. For those of you wanting to try new cables, I've been following Jeff Day's blog, Jeff's Place (http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/. Jeff Day has been posting blog entries about these fantastic interconnects and speaker cables recommended by Shirokazu Yazaki of SPEC Corporation of Japan. I won't go into the SPEC Corporation's Class D amp or Yazaki-san's philosophy on "real sound," but I and many others have found validity in the recommendations for the following:

• Belden 8402 interconnect cables with Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA connectors
• Western Electric AIW 16ga speaker cables

I've never been one to spend a fortune on expensive cables, but I have friends who do, and I've heard the merits of high end cables like Kimber KCAG silver interconnects and 8TC speaker cables in my own system using these cables on loan from friends. Surprisingly, these reasonably priced cables (very easy to DIY) work really well in my system. With a TPA31xx amp, you would be surprised at the improvements.

I'll let you all explore this on your own. Unfortunately, the stock of Western Electric AIW 16ga wire is drying up as this product is not longer in production and audiophiles have been gobbling it up in the span of a few months. The best seller on eBay for the Western Electric wire is tajacobs. Not sure how much s/he has left.

Fortunately, Belden still makes the 8402 microphone cable and it is available by the foot from Best-Tronics (https://btpa.com/CA-0582.html). They also sell the Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA connectors. If you don't want to roll your own, they will terminate a pair for you.



Again, you will be pleasantly surprised with what your system will sound like. You'll discover how much music is really processed through these little Texas Instruments Class D amp ICs. Several friends and many on the Web have tried these cables with a wide range of equipment, and these are a bargain for what they do.

[lacro]

Rich, thanks for the info on the Belden 8402. I have been wanting to DIY some IC's. How did you wire them, did you ground the braid at both ends or just one?

[rhing]

Hi lacro,

There are two conductors, one black and one white, and the Tinned Copper braided shield. Use the white for "+" and both the shield and black conductor for "-" or ground. The shield and black conductors are both tied together at both ends. It contradicts conventional wisdom to have the shield tied to ground at both ends, but it works and I do not ever recall having read anyone who has followed this configuration complain about ground loops.

Take your time in making these as there are Cotton and Rayon fillers that need to be carefully trimmed away with small trimming scissors. I used a dental pick tool to carefully split the shield braid wires in half before twisting them, trimming them, and soldering them to the ground lug of the Switchcraft RCA connectors. Also remember to place the Switchcraft RCA bodies over the cables before soldering the connectors on. Otherwise, you'll have to undo your soldering and start again.

One friend replaced his Kimber Kable KCAG interconnects and another friend replaced his AudioQuest interconnects. If you like a hard, edgy and analytical sound, then these Belden cables are not a good choice. If you like a warm, full-bodied sound with midrange detail, extended bass response and a large soundstage, these are the stuff.

In reference to the Wiener TPA3118 amps, Gary Marsh, the designer, accepted a wealth of input from many technical participants on the diyAudio.com thread. He also tests the boards and tests the semi-assembled and fully assembled configurations. My stereo amp was fully assembled, but the two PBTL (i.e., mono) amp boards I recently purchased only have the TPA3118 ICs and micro controllers installed. I will assemble the rest of the SMD and thru-hole components. Comparing this to my various modified Sure TPA3116, Yuan Jing TPA3116, Sure TPA3110, SMSL TPA3118 amps, the Wiener amps are head and shoulders above these in sound quality and noise-free operation. The addition of the CineMag input transformers just takes this amp, and any other TPA311x amp for that matter, to another level of performance.

I brought this amp to a buddy's house and powered his pair of Altec Lansing Model 19 speakers, and we were amazed how the Wiener amp was able to hold up against my friend's Tube Lab 6B4G (similar to 2A3 triodes) push-pull amp using Lundahl interstage transformers and Hashimoto output transformers. Of course, the tube amp was better, but the gap wasn't as huge as one would expect.

[Trikster]

Where can I find more info on the Weiner amp?

[Markvdv]

Rhing have you ever connected the Gmarsh Wiener to speakers that require a little higher inputsignal to the ampboard ?
If you have those kind of speakers could you compare DC on speaker output Gmarsh Wiener to DC produced by Dugs mono boards or Sure3116 or any other tpa ampboard you have? I am curious what you'll see on your meter. I know what I see, I know I need to increase gainsetting Wiener to avoid higher inputlevels as a fix to keep DC output within what I would call hifi limits. Your Dug monoboards probably have the seperate avcc/pvcc setup too, so if your Dugs have equal DC on output as Wiener and Sure3116 has only a fraction of that amount like even YJblue, it might be avcc split connection causing the high dclevels playing music when inputsignal gets higher.

(outputlevel matched with sinewave inputsignal, audiobah left output has -8mV DC, gmarsh Wiener same setting left output -218mV DC)

[t-head]

Rhing, What is the model number of your input transformers? Thanks.