[pstrisik]

Good info Dave.  I'll take a look at the products you've listed and reconsider.

I've always been skeptical of Rhodium since it is pretty far down the conductivity list of metals.  But if extremely thin plating isn't an issue, then I guess it doesn't matter.  If it does matter, than 24K plated copper seems optimal as gold is just under silver and copper, both of which oxidize and/or are too soft alone.

.......Peter

[doggie]

Yes, I have the same 14g WE wire in a couple of PCs I built many years ago. Much better than regular TPC wire, a bit on the romantic side but very good value wire. UPOCC is better but more $... if you don't mind soldering I'd solder your WE wire directly to the binding posts and driver terminals.

I'd consider binding posts as well. Louis sells Supra posts which are a great value, Furutech posts are amazing but a lot of cash. I have Pomonas on mine and while they are very good the Supras are probably a better bet as they are more robust. Both are telurium copper afaik, which is a big step up from regular brass posts.

Peter, those BJC bananas are a big 'ol chunk of brass, I'd reconsider...

My speakers have bottom ports and I use the nerf balls in them. I soldered the WE16 directly to the drivers and threaded the wire out the port to the amp. No need for the binding posts and I use bare wire at the amp. I do not disconnect very often and have a hard time imagining what I would replace the Omegas with

My Saber based DAC is a bit incisive so these cables work great with that romance...

[doggie]

Oops. Sorry Rebbi. Did not mean to take your thread off topic

[rebbi]

Oops. Sorry Rebbi. Did not mean to take your thread off topic

No problem, Doggie. Topic Drift is a part of life on the forums.   

[pstrisik]

My speakers have bottom ports and I use the nerf balls in them. I soldered the WE16 directly to the drivers and threaded the wire out the port to the amp. No need for the binding posts and I use bare wire at the amp. I do not disconnect very often and have a hard time imagining what I would replace the Omegas with

My Saber based DAC is a bit incisive so these cables work great with that romance...

Good to hear.  I'm looking forward to trying them out.

No problem, Doggie. Topic Drift is a part of life on the forums.   

When I start a thread and it takes off, even a different direction, I take it as a compliment since it stimulated something!   

                 ......Peter

[rebbi]

When I start a thread and it takes off, even a different direction, I take it as a compliment since it stimulated something!   

                 ......Peter

Totally. I once said over on Audiogon that "a thread's not a thread until it hits five hundred posts."   

[DaveC113]

Good info Dave.  I'll take a look at the products you've listed and reconsider.

I've always been skeptical of Rhodium since it is pretty far down the conductivity list of metals.  But if extremely thin plating isn't an issue, then I guess it doesn't matter.  If it does matter, than 24K plated copper seems optimal as gold is just under silver and copper, both of which oxidize and/or are too soft alone.

.......Peter

That would seem to be true but maybe not in every case... It's difficult to plate gold directly on copper so it almost always has a layer of nickle between the gold and the copper. Rhodium isn't as conductive as gold but it ends up sounding more neutral when used to plate copper. Rhodium plated on copper alloys (brass, bronze) can be harsher, here it's better to use gold to smooth out the grain from the copper alloy. It doesn't make a huge difference on speaker cable connectors but it does with interconnects and power cables. Rhodium is also more durable, gold plating can wear off over time. I built my SET amp around 10 years ago and use gold plated copper Vampire RCA jacks, the gold plating on the jacks is now wearing thin...

doggie, that will work great. The nice thing about tinned wire is it won't corrode like plain copper. 

[pstrisik]

That would seem to be true but maybe not in every case... It's difficult to plate gold directly on copper so it almost always has a layer of nickle between the gold and the copper. Rhodium isn't as conductive as gold but it ends up sounding more neutral when used to plate copper. Rhodium plated on copper alloys (brass, bronze) can be harsher, here it's better to use gold to smooth out the grain from the copper alloy. It doesn't make a huge difference on speaker cable connectors but it does with interconnects and power cables. Rhodium is also more durable, gold plating can wear off over time. I built my SET amp around 10 years ago and use gold plated copper Vampire RCA jacks, the gold plating on the jacks is now wearing thin...

doggie, that will work great. The nice thing about tinned wire is it won't corrode like plain copper.

After all of this, I'm realizing that I should probably just go with bare wire.  I don't connect/disconnect much anymore between amp and speakers, so I don't really need the convenience.  That seems to me to be the purest connection.

Now, RCA interconnects are a different story!

.......Peter

[rebbi]

After all of this, I'm realizing that I should probably just go with bare wire.  I don't connect/disconnect much anymore between amp and speakers, so I don't really need the convenience.  That seems to me to be the purest connection.

Now, RCA interconnects are a different story!

.......Peter

I am using bare wire, Peter, and it works great. I really appreciate the fact that the Super Alnico monitors have large enough holes in the speaker binding posts to accommodate the Supra Classic 6.0 speaker cable that I use. It's a pleasure.   

[DaveC113]

Interesting, the Supra isn't litz wire, it's tinned/stranded OFC copper like the WE wire:

"The SUPRA Classic Cable comprises highly flexible cables containing tin plated multi-stranded OFC copper of purity degree 5N, which means> 99.999% pure, i.e. purer than five nines. The insulation is a special ion stable PVC which minimizes corrosion of the sonically benign tin surface. The tin contributes to a better sound quality by minimizing the skin-effect and making less current jumps between the wire surfaces."

Tin has far less conductivity vs copper so the tinning encourages the electrons to stay in the strand rather than jump from strand to strand, which causes grain. Litz wire does this by insulating each individual strand, also by braiding the wire so there are no inner or outer strands, every strand shares the same position in the wire bundle. But tinning litz wire is pretty annoying.

I had to check because it would be bad to use litz wire without tinning the ends properly...

The tin plated wire is also nice because tin does not really corrode, while copper does. But with either one it might be a good idea to get some Caig progold to treat the connection. It's expensive but a small bottle will last forever. 

[rebbi]

Interesting, the Supra isn't litz wire, it's tinned/stranded OFC copper like the WE wire:

"The SUPRA Classic Cable comprises highly flexible cables containing tin plated multi-stranded OFC copper of purity degree 5N, which means> 99.999% pure, i.e. purer than five nines. The insulation is a special ion stable PVC which minimizes corrosion of the sonically benign tin surface. The tin contributes to a better sound quality by minimizing the skin-effect and making less current jumps between the wire surfaces."

Tin has far less conductivity vs copper so the tinning encourages the electrons to stay in the strand rather than jump from strand to strand, which causes grain. Litz wire does this by insulating each individual strand, also by braiding the wire so there are no inner or outer strands, every strand shares the same position in the wire bundle. But tinning litz wire is pretty annoying.

I had to check because it would be bad to use litz wire without tinning the ends properly...

The tin plated wire is also nice because tin does not really corrode, while copper does. But with either one it might be a good idea to get some Caig progold to treat the connection. It's expensive but a small bottle will last forever.

I first discovered the Supra Classic 6.0 speaker cable in an interesting way. The late Bobby Palkovich – who just passed away near the end of August – always used to recommend very, very expensive Cardas speaker cable for use with his Merlin Speakers. I had a pair of his TSM monitors and there was no way I could afford those recommended cables. So I asked him for the physical characteristics of what would make a good speaker wire for his speakers and he gave me those parameters. I searched all over the Internet and eventually stumbled upon the Supra Classic 6.0. It is unbelievably cheap for what it is, at least compared to other high-end speaker cables. (Supra also makes some very pricey stuff.) So I brought the Classic 6.0 to Bobby's attention and he ordered some samples. He later told me that the Classic 6.0 was "stupid good" for the price – which was Bobby's highest compliment when it came to audio equipment. And it became Bobby's go-to recommendation for a "bargain" cable. It's interesting to me that Louis uses Supra cable in his speakers. Must be good stuff!   

[DaveC113]

I first discovered the Supra Classic 6.0 speaker cable in an interesting way. The late Bobby Palkovich – who just passed away near the end of August – always used to recommend very, very expensive Cardas speaker cable for use with his Merlin Speakers. I had a pair of his TSM monitors and there was no way I could afford those recommended cables. So I asked him for the physical characteristics of what would make a good speaker wire for his speakers and he gave me those parameters. I searched all over the Internet and eventually stumbled upon the Supra Classic 6.0. It is unbelievably cheap for what it is, at least compared to other high-end speaker cables. (Supra also makes some very pricey stuff.) So I brought the Classic 6.0 to Bobby's attention and he ordered some samples. He later told me that the Classic 6.0 was "stupid good" for the price – which was Bobby's highest compliment when it came to audio equipment. And it became Bobby's go-to recommendation for a "bargain" cable. It's interesting to me that Louis uses Supra cable in his speakers. Must be good stuff!   

It is a good value, one of my customers used to be a dealer for it so I have got to compare my cables vs top of the line Supra... my cables are better but also a bit more expensive.

I gave Merlin top marks in one of my RMAF reviews, then he stopped attending. He saw the review and was nice enough to write me a thank-you note. Nice guy and definitely a loss for the high end audio community. RIP Bobby...

[vinagunner]

v

[rebbi]

So, what now, rebbi? Are you (still) happy with the purchase after the break-in?

Hello, and thanks for checking in.

I currently have a pair of Skylan stands on the way from Noel in Canada. Yes, I bit the bullet, financially. The stands are not inexpensive, but compared to Sound Anchors stands (from Florida) they are a bargain. Also, the exchange rates between the Canadian and American dollars is a help! Anyway, Noel said the lead time should only be one and a half weeks, so I ought to be receiving them late this week or early next week.

The speakers currently have somewhere over 100 hours on them. I would guess that they are "pretty much" broken in, although I still sometimes think I perceive subtle changes in the sound as they get more time on them. Things just seem a little more open and relaxed.

I will be interested to see what effect a really great pair of custom-made stands has on the sound. Up until now, I've been using a temporary pair of somewhat wobbly MDF stands that I received with my first pair of Omega's. They are about 17 inches high, with the spikes, which is a pretty good height – but again, they are hardly the kind of firm foundation you would want for any quality monitor. I mentioned this to Louis, and he said that a good stand would not only firm up the low end, but "clean up" the sound in other ways, as well.

So, once I have my permanent stands in place, I'll report back with my impressions.

[TimF]

Rebbi, I agree on the Supra cable, I have been using the Classic 6.0 with my Larsen Model 4's for almost 3 years now, good stuff. Also the Supra Ply is a very good wire as well.

Congrats on the speakers and also the Skylan stands! Great stuff!

[rebbi]

The Skylan stands arrived today. I might not get to assembling them until the weekend, though.   

Noel was nice enough to throw in a set of the q-bricks vibration absorption devices. He recommends filling the stands with rice, and trying them with and without the q-bricks.

I'll report back soon!   

[Canada Rob]

Rebbi,

See here first.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134577.0

Try this, and maybe save the rice for sushi.  My Skylan stands internally rubber damped and with Q-bricks is where I'm at now and have been for months.  The bass is tight, tuneful, and so integrated with the music.  Imaging width and depth, and instrument separation are such that the whole system just disappears. 

[rebbi]

Rebbi,

See here first.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134577.0

Try this, and maybe save the rice for sushi.  My Skylan stands internally rubber damped and with Q-bricks is where I'm at now and have been for months.  The bass is tight, tuneful, and so integrated with the music.  Imaging width and depth, and instrument separation are such that the whole system just disappears. 

I remember what you did with the tin snips and rubber truck bed material. Did you experiment with filled vs. unfilled, Rob? I don't have a truck bed, but I could experiment with cutting up an old, spongey yoga mat.     And how did you what size to make those rubber pieces?

Thanks!!

[sunnydaze]

Go on EBay or Amazon or Craigslist and buy one.  Or rubber car floor mats will probably work just as well, and cheaper.  Maybe go buy one at an auto junk yard for pennies. Think outside the box, lotsa different stuff will likely work.   

Personally, I'd go with the CL or junk yard options.  You only need a few inches, it will be super cheap, and does it really matter if it's now new?       Just wash it with soapy water (or degreaser like Simple Green) and a stiff brush.   

I'm guessing the yoga mat will be too soft, and likely rip.  It's a completely different material.  Not tough enough.

[Canada Rob]

Rebbi,

I agree with Sunnydaze - the yoga mat will not likely work.  The rubber needs to be relatively thick, dense, and stiff, but not hard like a hockey puck.
You can buy a small amount of truckbed rubber at an auto supply store for cheap.  The size of each piece: 2-1/2" x 6".  Poke a hole in the centre of each with an ice pick and then shove them down to about the middle of the threaded rod.  Make sure the damper's "U" inside the columns are upright and not upside down once the stands are assembled and sitting upright.

As far as rice goes, no I haven't tried it.  I'm happy with the current results.  Besides, our family eats quite a bit of rice, and I might end up emptying out the stands for supper.  With rubber there is no such temptation, as no one in our family cares for the taste.

However, with rice you could have a lot of sonic options.  Brown or white Basmati, brown or white Jasmine, brown or white Calrose, Sushi. etc...the list goes on.  Talk about a tweakers dream.