[drhoon]

Hello,
I recently ordered Salk wow1 desktop speakers which has the following specs:
 "8 ohm design and they are about 84 db sensitive."

I already have a dac for my pc and I was wondering if anyone could recommend about ~$500-1000 amplifier to pair it with. I am not sure where to start... 
Ideally they would be smallish enough to fit on a desk but this is not absolute criteria.

thanks and any help would be appreciated.

[mresseguie]

Hello, drhoon.

You've listed your budget at $500 to $1000, so folks like me know to keep our imaginations from running wild. 

You already have a DAC, but does your DAC have a volume control (can it be your preamp?)? Are you looking for an integrated amplifier, or for a power amp?

How much room is there for the amplifier?

Do you want a tube amp, or solid state (SS)?

New or used?

I'm driving my 83.5dB speakers with a Nuprime IDA-8 integrated amp (100W into 8 ohms). It includes a DAC. It's just 9.25"w X 10"d X 2.75"h. An IDA-8 can be purchased new for $995. I find that its power is enough most of the time, but I'm not listening in a desktop setup. I'm not necessarily suggesting you try this amp, but it will give you an idea of what to consider.

I presume there isn't a lot of extra space for an amp, so half-sized amps or mini-amps might be more appropriate.

There are plenty of class D amps for sale. They are very compact and inexpensive. Take a look at classdaudio.com (http://www.classdaudio.com/audio-amplifiers/all-amplifiers.html) for a selection of possible amps. It seems to me NAD has a couple amps in your budget range, but I haven't followed NAD recently, so I'm unsure of model numbers.

Off the top of my head, these brands come to mind for under $1000:

Yamaha
Marantz
Nuprime
ClassDAudio
NAD
PeachTree
Cambridge Audio

There are certainly many more brands to choose from.

Best of luck, and enjoy the search.

Michael

[drhoon]

Thank you very much for the information.

I currently have Schiit Gungnir multibit as a dac and Schiit Ragnarok to drive my headphones and I was planning to drive my speakers with it as well.

The situation is that Schiit Ragnarok is a bit too large for my desk and I am pairing my headphones with a cheaper tube amp so I would need a separate speaker amp now.

Tube or SS doesn't matter as long as it is enough to drive the apparently "inefficient" speakers.
I am not sure what the use of pre-amp is but I'd rather not invest in one if not needed.
I think I am looking for just separate power amp because I plan to use the gungnir as my my main dac. "Used" is just fine and that's most likely the route I will be taking.

Thank you for the brand suggestions and I suppose more googling needs to be done.

[mresseguie]

I see the Schiit Ragnarok is 16"w X 12"h X 3.75"h. I presume the height is not the problem, so you want a box that is smaller than 16" x 12".

A preamp contains the volume control, input selector switch, input/output connectors. Some DACs have either an analog or digital volume control. A power amp has no preamp controls; an integrated combines a power amp with a preamp (and some even add a DAC for a three-way integrated).

Since you already have a fine DAC, you do not need to consider the IDA-8. I'm confident the Gungnir MB is superior to the IDA-8's DAC.

I'm very curious to know your impressions of the Gungnir Multibit DAC. It was on my final list of DACs for my upcoming purchase. I have not auditioned one, so I don't know its sound.

[JLM]

Wow, great choice.  I tried to hear them at Axpona last year, but they were on static display.   

I doubt a compact tube amp is going to provide the muscle these speakers need to really expose their full dynamic potential.  The Gungnir MB and Ragnarok are also an excellent pieces.  Are you sure you can't you stack the Gungnir MB on top of the Ragnarok?  From what I've read the Gungnir really shines via it's balanced (XLR) outputs, meaning that a natively balanced integrated amp would be ideal.  So if the Gungnir and Regnarok can't be stacked what you need IME is a compact integrated solid state stereo amp rated say 80 - 250 wpc (volume control and lots of power in a small cabinet). 

[drhoon]

Wow, great choice.  I tried to hear them at Axpona last year, but they were on static display.   

I doubt a compact tube amp is going to provide the muscle these speakers need to really expose their full dynamic potential.  The Gungnir MB and Ragnarok are also an excellent pieces.  Are you sure you can't you stack the Gungnir MB on top of the Ragnarok?  From what I've read the Gungnir really shines via it's balanced (XLR) outputs, meaning that a natively balanced integrated amp would be ideal.  So if the Gungnir and Regnarok can't be stacked what you need IME is a compact integrated solid state stereo amp rated say 80 - 250 wpc (volume control and lots of power in a small cabinet).

I think I'll try stacking then 
Do you think Ragnarok has enough power to drive the wow1's? I am not sure how to read the power rating. On the specification it says for 8 Ohm it has 60W RMS per channel. (wow1 is 8 Ohm design? not sure what this also means).

About the gungnir multibit (gumby) as a DAC. It is the best dac you can buy short of the Yggdrasil. I am not too familiar with the dac's used in integrated but I would definitely recommend gumby if you can't afford the yggy. But then again many analog turntable set up I read is much better than any dac in existence.

[srb]

Do you think Ragnarok has enough power to drive the wow1's? I am not sure how to read the power rating. On the specification it says for 8 Ohm it has 60W RMS per channel. (wow1 is 8 Ohm design? not sure what this also means).

The WOW1 is an 8ohm speaker (impedance varies with frequency, but overall an average of 8ohm).

Based on desktop nearfield use, your 84dB sensitivity speakers paired with a 60W/ch amplifier should be able to achieve a peak SPL of ~ 108dB (if the speakers themselves were actually physically able to output that level).  This rough calculation is based on: (1) speakers are ~ 2-4 feet from the wall and (2) a listening distance of ~ 3 feet.

That would allow for most peaks found in recorded music above what would be considered by most as a "loud" average listening level.  So I think in this particular desktop scenario, you should most definitely have enough power.

Steve

[JLM]

IME "real" power (that we hear with music) comes from "beefy" power supplies more than a number from a test bench (the specifications we all refer to).  I trust Schiit knows that too.  Besides the relationship between what we hear (dB's) and what is measured (watts) is logarithmic, meaning it takes 10 times the power to double the sound pressure level (spl - volume) we hear.  So 10 watts = 10 dB of gain (sounds twice as loud from the reference specification used for speaker efficiency of XX dB/w/m, which is implied as 1 watt), 60 watts = 17.6 dB of gain, 100 watts = 20 dB of gain, 250 watts = 23.8 dB of gain, etc.  Again that's the raw numbers, IME it's the power supply that largely determines how much of a commanding/controlling grip the amp has on the speaker that is all important.

The generally accepted values for dynamic swings and peak spls are: classical - 30 dB up to 105 dB; jazz - 20 dB up to 105 dB; rock - 10 dB up to 110 dB.  These peak values are darn loud, but very brief.  Most audiophiles I've been around turn it up to average levels of 80 dB for serious auditioning and 70 dB for more casual listening.

As Steve indicates 60 wpc on a desktop will be plenty.  And it cost nothing for you to find out.  If stacking the Gungnir MB and Ragnarok bugs you, add small blocks/shelf or taller footers (soft rubber with clear plastic kitchen wrap to top and bottom)  underneath the Gungnir.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

For integrated amps I would consider the Marantz PM8005, Yamaha A-AS801, NAD C 356BEE.  Cambridge Audio makes a nice integrated CXA80.  Outlaw Audio makes a nice receiver that is high power and high current that has got great reviews in the past- RR2150.  I am a fan of the house Marantz sound. 

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/integratedamp/home-audio/receivers-amps/integrated-amps/1.html

Also consider the Peach Tree Nova 65se.  I haven't heard this one but I have heard it's big brother and like the sound.  They are nice and compact and look good.

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/nova65se-amplifier-with-dac.html

[mca]

Rega Brio R is a nice sounding compact integrated.

[maty]

SPL (Sound pressure level) calculator

-> http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/calculadores_en.htm#calc_spl

Do not buy NEW Rega Brio-R!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look inside, agggggggggggggggggggg



-> http://www.salonav.com/arch/2012/04/048-rega.htm Russian

Aggggggggggggg. 50 Hz (Europe) => ONLY -60 dB => HUM/hiss in the speakers

[maty]

-> https://www.google.com/search?q=rega+r+brio+hum+buzz      

[maty]

Maybe

Tisbury Mini Passive Preamplifier II £129 = $187 + shipping to USA

-> http://tisburyaudio.co.uk/mini-passive-preamplifier

Schiit Gungnir multibit

Nuprime STA-9 (impedance input: 47k Ohms) $649 very new, without customer review!

-> http://www.nuprimeaudio.com/index.php/products/amplifiers-and-preamps/stereo-amps/sta-9.html

Or other passive with more steps or with ALPS Blue.

[maty]

Tisbury uses a very good and cheap (chinese) SMD 21 steps.

Image too big -> http://tisburyaudio.co.uk/images/products/mini-passive-preamp-5.jpg

And:

Selectable Fixed Attenuation

A new feature is the selectable attenuation, which allows you to reduce the signal by a fixed -10 dB or -20 dB. If your system has too much gain and you can't turn the volume dial past 12 o'clock without hearing damage, this setting will help.

Image too big -> http://tisburyaudio.co.uk/images/products/mini-passive-preamp-4.jpg

[maty]

Or the cheap Shiit Syr passive volum control $49

-> http://schiit.com/products/sys

-> http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-Audio-SCH-13-Passive-Preamp/dp/B00K6Q2A4C

I prefer the british or other if you play very well recorded music.