[undertow]

I can say I was a first adopter of the NC 400 mono with 600 power supplies. Built it in about 3 hours, but I had some experience in building much more complex equipment so it was obviously fairly simple. (This included machining chassis for the connectors etc...)

The NCore is nice from the perspective that it's advanced in a way getting you good power, efficiency, reasonable quality, semi-reasonable pricing, but my opinion still a very high price for DIY.

However, I can tell you absolute "Musicality" is not its strong suit, and not a ton of tweaks or mods will do a lot of justice to it. If you want a very stable, and somewhat easy/reliable "Neutral" amp whatever that means the Ncore is that.

But I hate to say compared to even something like the JOB 225 which sonically was similar in some ways solid state approaches any system in tone, but still for the money the JOB built direct from the factory is a better unit, and will hold much better value. So if your looking at these type of advanced SS designs that is the one to go with. Be careful with the VERY high gain though.

Even better amps in my opinion for far less money are the Modded DNA series by McCormack also popular amongst most of this same crowd of "Want it all for less" audio enthusiasts. I have owned several of all these mentioned.

Musicality is a difficult thing to measure, and Ncore is no doubt flat as a pancake when it comes to specs. but unfortunately perfect specs. only go so far, and go ahead and trust those for High definition Video monitors not so much for audio.

By the way nothing really out there in the NEO-compact Class D world can easily touch well designed Tubes to this day from almost everything I have used coming from pure Class A Clayton mono blocks, Threshold, Mcintosh, Conrad Johnson etc... accept maybe FM Acoustics which is nowhere in the price ranges we are talking here.

Again this is my opinion and experience, but sometimes you just get lucky, and a great matching speaker to any amp will perform on an equal level as good as any other.

[AmpDesigner333]

A few years ago there were 2 similar speaker designs by 2 manufacturers launching their respective products, and a fair bit of buzz on the various forums as to which was better. But nobody had a pair of both to compare so it was all speculation.

I had a pair of one of the speakers and posted how I liked them. I was contacted by the manufacturer of the other speaker who had been reading the various threads. He offered to ship me his product, he would pay shipping, and all he asked was for me to listen and compare and to post my impressions in one specific thread. When I was done he would pay for return shipping. Never took my credit card, etc.

Obviously he was supremely confident in his product. It turns out for good reason.

Who were the two speaker manufacturers?

You might have noticed that I am also "supremely confident" in Cherry Amplifiers.     (:

You raise a good point, and we have done such things in the past with the "big Cherry".

We make premium products, but our prices are very reasonable because our margins MUCH lower than the "big guys" (not greedy?  less overhead?  yes!).

By developing our own technology and using it in a finished product, we are able to use better parts and higher quality local (inherently expensive) vendors.  Long-term, that allows us to offer some really agressive deals.  So....

During the past few years, we have sold many amps under our standard 30-day trial policy.  Occasionally, we offer demo amps as trials with great deals.  We did recently, and now we're forced to allocate portions of new builds to demos.

Thanks for your kind post.

[macrojack]

AmpDesigner 333 -

You sound over-confident, maybe a little scared. Naturally I have no idea about your circumstances but you come on way to strong for my tastes.

Yeah, I know, don't read it if I don't like it. Then again, I imagine you have your own circle so you can attract readers like me. So, you can blow me off if you like. I'm not a customer and not likely to become one. I am, however, an observer with an opinion you might wish to consider. What's with your Ncore obsession? Just concentrate on your own product and stop chasing ghosts. Rather than worry about Hypex Ncore amps, you might better worry about the fact that they don't even notice you.

[AmpDesigner333]

But I hate to say compared to even something like the JOB 225 which sonically was similar in some ways solid state approaches any system in tone, but still for the money the JOB built direct from the factory is a better unit, and will hold much better value. So if your looking at these type of advanced SS designs that is the one to go with. Be careful with the VERY high gain though.

Interesting statements there.  That may be a better amp for comparison, too.  Is this a Class-AB design?  From what I can tell, it's NOT a pre-fab module amp either.  They have a much more "Cherry Like" business model.  Pretty crappy website, but that probably means they are passing the savings on a web designer to their customers.  I wonder why the 225's SNR is only rated at 100dB, though.  Ncore and Maraschino are in the 120dB zone, which is worlds away.  Great post.  Thanks.

[undertow]

The Job 225 is made by "Goldmund". Yes the famed very expensive Swiss manufacturer.

http://www.goldmund.com/en

[sebrof]

Who were the two speaker manufacturers?

The one that sent me the speaker was Eric Alexander from Tekton

You might have noticed that I am also "supremely confident" in Cherry Amplifiers.     (:

Um, yes, I noticed 

See you at LSAF

[AmpDesigner333]

AmpDesigner 333 -

You sound over-confident, maybe a little scared. Naturally I have no idea about your circumstances but you come on way to strong for my tastes.

Yeah, I know, don't read it if I don't like it. Then again, I imagine you have your own circle so you can attract readers like me. So, you can blow me off if you like. I'm not a customer and not likely to become one. I am, however, an observer with an opinion you might wish to consider. What's with your Ncore obsession? Just concentrate on your own product and stop chasing ghosts. Rather than worry about Hypex Ncore amps, you might better worry about the fact that they don't even notice you.

I'm not going to ignore you, and I appreciate your honesty ---- and the time it took to post your thoughts.

Someone recently said they also thought I was over confident, then after hearing the Maraschino said they were wrong.

Note the number of threads on this board.  Some are 30+ pages long.  100,000+ page reads....  Only one two-pager about comparing Maraschino to ncore.  NOT an obsession.

You're completely wrong when you say "they don't even notice you".

My customers appreciate my vigilance, big time!  Take a look at the reviews.

By the way, you come on a little too strong for my tastes.  Just kidding (:

Thanks, and have a nice weekend.

[AmpDesigner333]

The one that sent me the speaker was Eric Alexander from Tekton
Um, yes, I noticed 

See you at LSAF

Can't say the other one?

Thanks.

[sebrof]

Can't say the other one?

Thanks.

The other was Zu, but the story was about Tekton sending me the speakers. That's why I only mentioned Tekton.
I had an excellent customer experience with the guys at Zu...since I'm mentioning them. Hey, if you ain't got nothin' nice to say, right?

[AmpDesigner333]

The other was Zu, but the story was about Tekton sending me the speakers. That's why I only mentioned Tekton.
I had an excellent customer experience with the guys at Zu...since I'm mentioning them. Hey, if you ain't got nothin' nice to say, right?

Sean at Zu is a great guy.

Thanks for your posts on this thread.  Hope to see you around more on my board.

I was just telling my son I'm so tempted to post "My parents taught me if you ain't got nothin' nice....."!!!!  Great minds think alike.

[OzarkTom]

My buddy Rex and I have gone through a ton of amps the last few years, we even had the tour Ncore amps here with the 1k triode Pete wires. There was a big problem at my place, AC distortion made me quit listening very fast. At Rex's house they sounded much better. Both of us would have bought a pair two years ago, but neither thought they sounded as good as the hype.

I too thought Tommy here was being over bragging on his Marashino's, that is probably why I signed up for the demo deal, just to prove Tommy was wrong. I did drag my feet for a couple of weeks but I told Rex about it also. Rex went on the net and searched every review that he could find, not one negative anywhere from owners to any the publications. Rex actually signed up before me. I then quickly did a search for used ones anywhere on the net, there were none, present or in history past.

We both have had the Job 225 amps. I had the early version, Rex owned the second version. Rex got to compare the two at his place, he said mine was much better. The Goldmund company told me there would be a slight degradation in sound, so I never had mine modified. In comparison to these Marashino's, it is not close. The Job amp was very noisy compared to the Marashino's. The noise floor is much lower. Soundstage  is larger, bass is much better. The 48v Marashino's is very lush, very tube like.

Rex now owns the Vinnie Rossi LIO, he says that is very good sounding, but he likes the Marashino's even more. He says the Marashino's have more magic. Rex likes to run his LIO has a pre while using the Marashino's as his main amps. Rex has owned so many amps in his lifetime, I doubt if anyone here can match him.

Like I said, if the Ncores would have sounded as good as these Marashino's, Rex and I would have bought them a long time ago. They just don't have the same magic.

[Tyson]

The Maraschinos sound like an iron fist in a velvet glove.  The nCores sound like bleach being poured into my eyes.  I thought I hated all digital amps till I heard the DAC amps at RMAF last year.  Love it when my preconceptions get crushed like that.

[Julf]

Some people like neutral transparency. Other people like "musicality" (whatever it really is). More news at 11...

[barrows]

Very little in the way of actual comparisons here, I am willing to do it, level matched, in the same system, with both amps kept warmed up, etc...  All I need is the loaner Cherry stereo amp suitable for comparison with an NC-400 based stereo amp.

It is funny though, that an amp manufacturer who appears to believe that measurements are all important  (see that other thread) is looking for subjective comparisons.  From the measurements I have seen, both Cherry and Ncore have distortion and noise levels which would suggest they are "perfect" in terms of the audibility of problems.  The Ncore distortion numbers are even lower than Cherry...

Still, I would love to make a comparison in my system and report on the subjective experience.

[AmpDesigner333]

Very little in the way of actual comparisons here, I am willing to do it, level matched, in the same system, with both amps kept warmed up, etc...  All I need is the loaner Cherry stereo amp suitable for comparison with an NC-400 based stereo amp.

It is funny though, that an amp manufacturer who appears to believe that measurements are all important  (see that other thread) is looking for subjective comparisons.  From the measurements I have seen, both Cherry and Ncore have distortion and noise levels which would suggest they are "perfect" in terms of the audibility of problems.  The Ncore distortion numbers are even lower than Cherry...

Still, I would love to make a comparison in my system and report on the subjective experience.

We will keep you in mind.  We have many offers to do reviews at this time.  This is why I mentioned that we are running low on demos.  More hardware will be available in a few weeks.  We are hoping some comparisons can take place at LSAF.  Thanks again for your kind post.

[marvda1]

this will also be at the lone star audio fest.
http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/product/digital-power-amp-2/

[AmpDesigner333]

Thanks to Tom and Tyson for their kind posts.  I'm humbled by your enthusiasm.  Unfortunately, it's tough for a brand that is non-mainstream in this market.  It's listeners like you that make it all worth while (:

[AmpDesigner333]

this will also be at the lone star audio fest.
http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/product/digital-power-amp-2/

As with the JOB225, I wonder why SNR is on the low side with the Essence amp.  Maraschino and nCore have 20dB-ish lower noise, which is a whole different ball game.  Otherwise, the specs are pretty impressive.  Thanks for your post.  Please don't hesitate to explain more about the KING Marachinos at LSAF, like what they'll be driving.....

[rollo]

Some people like neutral transparency. Other people like "musicality" (whatever it really is). More news at 11...

    Yes some prefer a colored sound to the source over neutral to the source. This is akin to your favorite band playing at different venues. There is always a better room for live performance.
    Better meaning one's subjective likes and dislikes. For me personally it is as close to the truth of a real acoustic instrument un-amplified in a familiar room. Like my trumpet playing or my Son playing guitar in between my speakers. 
    The source in now controlled for me to get it. A Cd or LP or whatever source is a mystery to us since we were not at the recording venue. So moot actually for reference IMO.
     Julf your getting it personal preference based on hands on experience.


charles

[rollo]

Very little in the way of actual comparisons here, I am willing to do it, level matched, in the same system, with both amps kept warmed up, etc...  All I need is the loaner Cherry stereo amp suitable for comparison with an NC-400 based stereo amp.

It is funny though, that an amp manufacturer who appears to believe that measurements are all important  (see that other thread) is looking for subjective comparisons.  From the measurements I have seen, both Cherry and Ncore have distortion and noise levels which would suggest they are "perfect" in terms of the audibility of problems.  The Ncore distortion numbers are even lower than Cherry...

Still, I would love to make a comparison in my system and report on the subjective experience.

   Amazing how a listening comparison reveals all. Specs are specs hearing is believing. Loving it.


charles