Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?

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Jay S

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« on: 12 Jan 2003, 07:22 am »
Any news on the new Sadhara tube sub that was going to be released at the CES?

A teaser about this sub is on Adire's website.  

http://www.adireaudio.com/home_audio/loudspeakers/exact_series/sadhara.htm

Jay S

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #1 on: 14 Jan 2003, 01:48 am »
Ok, the info is out on Adire's website (see link above).  From the sound of it, the Sadhara is aimed at home theater rather than music?  What is interesting about it compared to other tube subs (beyond its output and low distortion) is the finish -- faux leather and several wood veneers are possible.  Heck, it may even look quite good and may function as a stand (assuming the bass doesn't knock off whatever you put on top).

JoshK

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #2 on: 14 Jan 2003, 02:02 am »
Looks pretty damn sweet, I must say!  I might have to pick one up!

JoshK

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jan 2003, 02:03 am »
double post

Sounding_Board_Audio

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Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jan 2003, 04:00 am »
Sorry, I'm not the market, but I think 1k is a lot for a passive. And for 1k, the product really ought to come with a + or - on the frequency response. Dan Wiggins is always a straight shooter; I'm sure he can address the second point if he thinks it's necessary.

Brian Bunge

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jan 2003, 06:42 pm »
I personally don't think $1K is a lot for a passive of this caliber.  We're talking about the longest throw, lowest distortion 12" driver on the market.  Add to that huge amounts of port area and you've got one hellatious subwoofer!  Also, power is cheap these days.  You can get quality pro audio amps starting at $400 or so.

rosconey

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jan 2003, 07:02 pm »
i think it would be hard pressed to be better than my vmps large sub for the same $.dont like ported either.
i agree about the external amp though.

Brian Bunge

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #7 on: 14 Jan 2003, 07:12 pm »
What don't you like about ported enclosures?  That's a pretty blanket statement.  Aren't the VMPS PR based subs?  Some regard PR based subs to be "worse" than ported.  At least they have higher group delay than a ported sub.

And also, keep in mind, there's not a driver on the market that will touch what Adire has come up with lately.  Not SVS, not VMPS, not anybody.

Kevin P

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Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #8 on: 14 Jan 2003, 08:00 pm »
I agree with Brian on this.... the new XBL motors put the Adire drivers in another league.  When you compare the driver's ability to deliver linear throw and the amount of distortion you will see that nothing holds a candle to the XBL based drivers.  This isn't hype... it is easy to measure and the independent testing will measurably prove the claims that Adire makes concerning their drivers.  It isn't snake oil and subjective claims...just proven greater output at lower distortion.   There were a lot of competitors in the Adire room at CES chewing their fingernails over the Tumult on display. :)

Now your choice of the Sadhara or not.... it is a ported design with the goal of maximizing output.  Also the enclosure is something special in terms of stiffness when compared to other available cylindrical based subs.  If that is what your looking for I cannot think of another product that offers that kind of bang/$ for the low distortion output that it is capable of providing.  

If you prefer sealed.... well the Tumult is coming......  just be patient.

Jay S

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #9 on: 15 Jan 2003, 01:12 am »
Would it be fair to say that the Sadhara is aimed more at the HT market while the Tumult prioritizes audio?  

I am really looking around my living/dining room (which is where my audio system is) to find a few possible spaces where I can give up 18"x18" (Tumult) of floor space.

Brian Bunge

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #10 on: 15 Jan 2003, 01:20 am »
Jay,

I'd think that would be a good assessment, although a simplified one.  The Tumult was designed for small, sealed enclosure applications.  But it can also be used in ported and PR applications as well.

Kevin P

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Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #11 on: 15 Jan 2003, 08:07 pm »
Jay S:  

Yes & no... the driver is only part of the formula.  In general... sealed box or IB installations tend to satisfy music lovers while ported/PR enclosures please the HT crowd.  The reasons are due to the properties of the system (amp, enclosure & driver).  

I'll try and quickly outline some of the pro's/cons of various enclosure designs.

#1.  Sealed box.  

a. Easy to design
b. Easy to build
c. Forgiving tolerances
d. Good transient response and group delay.
e. Good power handling (the enclosed air acts as a spring and controls driver motion.)
f.  The rolloff of the system is first order (about 6db/octave) on the low end which tends to match room gain as you drop in frequency.  Due to this you have a slower rolloff on the bottom end and it is easier to get deep.
g.  Very easy to adjust sytem Qts with enclosure size.

#2  Ported/PR Enclosure

a. More difficult to design.
b. Less tolerant of goofing up the build.
c. More output than sealed box (the number one benefit in my mind)
d. More expensive due to a more complex cabinet/parts.
e. Lower power handling (Especially below port tuning where you need a high-pass filter to protect your driver).
f.  Rolloff is 2nd order 12db/octave.  You get more output in general in the pass band but loose it quickly outside.
g.  Higher group delay.  You can design them so that the group delay is within an acceptable range.  

#3  IB

An infinite baffle is nothing more than a sealed box with a VERY large enclosure.  You can model them as a sealed box just set the box size to very large.  So.... all the benefits of a sealed box apply except power handling becomes an issue.  You need much less power for a typical IB installation.  IBs tend to have very good transient response.  Overall system Qtc depends upon Qts of the driver so you have to pick a driver with a Qts that matches your design goal.  


Overall it is much easier to design a sealed box system for music than either PR or ported designs.  You just give up output.  The reason the Tumult is going to kick butt is simply because it has an amazing amount of output even in a sealed box.  You still get more by using it in a ported system but at some point most people find enough is enough.    The Tumult in a 18" cube is going to give a system Qtc of around 0.7 and provide the same output as two Tempest or 3.4 Ravas with lower distortion.  There will be people for who that is not enough and they will use it in a ported or PR design which will require larger more complicated boxes.    It all just depends upon your goals and budget.

Brian Bunge

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #12 on: 15 Jan 2003, 08:35 pm »
Kevin,

Very good!  Also, keep in mind that with it's ultra low distortion, Dan has stated that the Tumult will be closer to 3 Tempests in output.

Kevin P

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Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #13 on: 15 Jan 2003, 09:15 pm »
Brian:  I'm  not sure how the distortion numbers fall.  I'm just basing my info on the swept volume of both drivers.  It is safe to say that the Tumult will have much less distortion than two Tempest at the same SPL level.  

Good point though... there is more than just output.  There is output at what distortion level to keep in mind.

Brian Bunge

Sadhara tube sub releasedat CES?
« Reply #14 on: 15 Jan 2003, 09:31 pm »
Kevin, make that "the Tumult is equal to 3 Tempests in CLEAN output"! :)