[rodge827]

Damn! This song keeps popping in my head as I read this thread:

Damn this traffic jam, how I hate to be late, it hurts my motor to go so slow.
Damn this traffic jam, time I get home my supper'll be cold, damn this traffic jam.

Well I left my job about 5 o'clock, it took fifteen minutes go three blocks,
Just in time to stand in line with a freeway looking like a parking lot.
Damn this traffic jam, how I hate to be late, it hurts my motor to go so slow.
Damn this traffic jam, time I get home my supper'll be cold, damn this traffic jam.

Now I almost had a heart attack, looking in my rear view mirror,
I saw myself the next car back, looking in the rear view mirror,
about to have a heart attack, I said,
damn this traffic jam, how I hate to be late, it hurts my motor to go so slow.
Damn this traffic jam, time I get home my supper'll be cold, damn this traffic jam.

Now when I die I don't want no coffin, I thought about it all too often.
Just strap me in behind the wheel and bury me with my automobile.
Damn this traffic jam, how I hate to be late, it hurts my motor to go so slow.
Damn this traffic jam, time I get home my supper'll be cold, damn this traffic jam. Damn.

Now I used to think that I was cool running around on fossil fuel,
Until I saw what I was doing was driving down the road to ruin.

[RDavidson]

You must be an angry driver. 

You need to live in So Cal to understand the problem. I don't live there, but I have a friend who does. I visit him from time to time. I totally get it.

[Shakeydeal]

Don't you want to save the planet, Shakey? Think of the polar bears.

I love the planet AND the polar bears. But driving a Prius (or not driving any other brand) can't help either. But that's a subject for a different time and place......


Shakey

[WGH]

I don't hate the Prius, just most of the people who drive them - but not you guys, audiophiles are cool.
Prius buyers are sensible, law abiding and concerned for the environment which means they observe the posted speed limit, follow all traffic laws studiously and putt along so they can always mention how many miles per gallon their Prius gets.

Whenever there is a long line of traffic on the way to work, the leader of the parade is inevitably a Prius. What's crazy is they can go fast, zippy in fact and probably fun to drive if the f**king drivers would just put the pedal to the metal once in a while.

And don't get me started on non-Prius drivers still texting after the light turns green, good thing my Jeep has a very nice loud horn.

[twitch54]

A Prius is an efficient means to an end...and that's all.

.......... and with that being said there's no reason it has be so damn ugly !!

[WGH]

.......... and with that being said there's no reason it has be so damn ugly !!

At least it's ugly, the Prius has a distinctive style. Most of the little white cars running around Tucson are so generic looking I can't tell one brand from another.

[max190]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrUYnOFZc2M

[rajacat]

If you can't handle the stress of living in LA, you should move to a small town and cut your living expenses, reduce stress and live the simple life. I can walk to the library, 2 movie theaters, food coop, courthouse, banks, hardware store, gas station  , taverns, restaurants, small shopping center, public pool, gym, parks, beach and schools.

[witchdoctor]

I call them *Douche Buggies*. Not in a kind, funny way. 

Here in So Cal, Prius owners feel like they own the road, and will drive their sorry pieces of crap in the fast lane at 55 because they're saving the earth. 

They pull onto the freeway at full power, going about 45 mph. The problem with that is if you're stuck behind the douche there is a 78-thousand-pound semi-truck bearing down on your ass at 70 mph. Douche Buggy don't care, he's saving the earth. 

Hate is an understatement. 

Get a life

[Shakeydeal]

I call them *Douche Buggies*. Not in a kind, funny way. 

Here in So Cal, Prius owners feel like they own the road, and will drive their sorry pieces of crap in the fast lane at 55 because they're saving the earth. 

They pull onto the freeway at full power, going about 45 mph. The problem with that is if you're stuck behind the douche there is a 78-thousand-pound semi-truck bearing down on your ass at 70 mph. Douche Buggy don't care, he's saving the earth. 

Hate is an understatement. 

The truth isn't always pretty, but sometimes needs to be heard.

[DaveC113]

I love the planet AND the polar bears. But driving a Prius (or not driving any other brand) can't help either. But that's a subject for a different time and place......


Shakey

It's hard to say for sure but I also have doubts as to whether the hybrid tradeoffs are really worth it.

When looking at energy tech the most important part is EROEI, or energy return on energy invested, imo. That's why nuclear isn't a good idea, it takes too much energy to build the thing and store it's waste, reducing your return to something in the 5:1 area + liability of toxic material storage and increase in temps of the body of water used for cooling. Wind turbines otoh were approaching 20:1 when I was working on them some years ago, new models might exceed the 20:1 mark, there's no toxic waste and they are nearly 100% recyclable. There's some disadvantages as far as how much space they need and associated distribution of power generated, but small potatoes vs nuclear waste imo.

So back to cars, the Prius is subsidized by Toyota vs conventional cars and has been since it came out with Toyota selling them for a loss. The manufacture of their batteries is environmentally problematic and the entire car is much more complicated, requiring much more energy to manufacture.

I don't have a definitive answer but it's certainly possible that it's more environmentally responsible to drive a supercharged Corvette vs a Prius. OTOH, the technology being developed for hybrids might be valuable in the future even if it's a net loss currently. What it comes down to is we need better battery or energy storage technology.

[Shakeydeal]

It's hard to say for sure but I also have doubts as to whether the hybrid tradeoffs are really worth it.

When looking at energy tech the most important part is EROEI, or energy return on energy invested, imo. That's why nuclear isn't a good idea, it takes too much energy to build the thing and store it's waste, reducing your return to something in the 5:1 area + liability of toxic material storage and increase in temps of the body of water used for cooling. Wind turbines otoh were approaching 20:1 when I was working on them some years ago, new models might exceed the 20:1 mark, there's no toxic waste and they are nearly 100% recyclable. There's some disadvantages as far as how much space they need and associated distribution of power generated, but small potatoes vs nuclear waste imo.

So back to cars, the Prius is subsidized by Toyota vs conventional cars and has been since it came out with Toyota selling them for a loss. The manufacture of their batteries is environmentally problematic and the entire car is much more complicated, requiring much more energy to manufacture.

I don't have a definitive answer but it's certainly possible that it's more environmentally responsible to drive a supercharged Corvette vs a Prius. OTOH, the technology being developed for hybrids might be valuable in the future even if it's a net loss currently. What it comes down to is we need better battery or energy storage technology.

Well first you have to drink the kool aid and believe in man made global warming. Then, you can go out and buy a Prius.......

Shakey

[macrojack]

My nomination for worst  rolling roadblock goes to Buick. It seems you have to have blue hair or a Viagra prescription just to own one.
As for suggestions in this hit piece of a thread, I think Rajacat walked away with the prize for best post. If people could cut out the stupid behavior that causes trouble, we could skip the arguments about whether or not the trouble exists, and just busy ourselves repairing the damage. Why not strive to minimize our driving by living near work or telecommuting? Why not switch to rooftop solar as an investment in your home without focusing on payback? What's the ROI on a swimming pool? If you feel either of these things is what you should do, then who is justified in telling you otherwise? Why not recycle? Nothing bad comes of it and something good might accrue, if only just you feeling happy with yourself. It feels good to feel good. See the potential for self-perpetuation? Feeling better than yesterday -- every day.
What would that be worth to you? Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution? Is there a third option? Yes, I'm preaching a bit. All in the way of saying, "Why not drive a Prius?". Once you've done so, see how much of the blockage you can dislodge from your evaluation channels while considering its merits. It is a very nice car but it was attacked in the press and other rumor generating public information sources before anyone had even seen it. By the time the Prius became available for purchase, there was a bias established in the mass mind against the car. Unbeknownst to me, I carried that impression about something called a Prius being bad somehow. It wasn't until a friend of mine bought one, that I pushed aside my blockage after having become familiar with his car. It was not long after that when I bought one myself.

[Emil]

 

Thread was supposed to be fun.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thread was supposed to be fun.

Too many humans in it.  I think I'll exit stage left. Nothing worthwhile any more.

[CSI]

As a life long "car guy" (my current ride is a Porsche Macan S) I fell into the trap of looking down on the Prius. What a snob! First, the Prius is a very good automobile (what else would you expect from Toyota?), second, it makes a stab at the global problem of emissions based pollution - for those who believe that cars are still a primary planet killer and that owning a "clean" car can make a difference. But mostly, they provide excellent transportation for those hard to understand drivers (the majority) who don't love cars like we do but who rationally consider them useful appliances. I don't love my dishwasher (although I did pick Bosch over GE because - German). There is no good reason for drivers to love their cars (which is not the same as loving what the cars do for them - which is just as true of Prius folks as it is of Porsche fanatics) and those who don't obsess over them may be the saner group anyway. So hats off to the Prius and those who drive them. Now if you would all just learn to, you know, drive.

[BobM]

My nomination for worst  rolling roadblock goes to Buick. It seems you have to have blue hair or a Viagra prescription just to own one.

We were in Florida this winter and heard a piece of advice from someone who'd moved there about 15 years ago. He said ...

Never walk in front of, or behind a Buick in Florida.

I can understand that.

[Emil]

We were in Florida this winter and heard a piece of advice from someone who'd moved there about 15 years ago. He said ...

Never walk in front of, or behind a Buick in Florida.

I can understand that.

maybe because that guy is usually 80 plus years old on his way to the early bird special.
I hear its meatloaf today

[srb]

I call them *Douche Buggies*. Not in a kind, funny way. 

That's not really fair.  I've actually come across more "douche" drivers in Corvettes than Prius'.  Not because they're driving slow - just the opposite - from driving too fast, recklessly and dangerously.

I don't own a Prius but have ridden in several.  They're very nice cars and are capable of merging into Interstate traffic at appropriate speeds.  The same driver who merges at 45mph in a Prius would do so in a more powerful car.

[Shakeydeal]

That's not really fair.  I've actually come across more "douche" drivers in Corvettes than Prius'.  Not because they're driving slow - just the opposite - from driving too fast, recklessly and dangerously.

As a corvette owner I can say I don't condone that kind of idiocy. That said, there is "douchebaggery" among all makes and models of cars. But high performance cars tend to have the largest share.

Shakey