[sunnydaze]

GOT THIS SET UP. WOW! Early days but I now have bass and slam I never had before. I'm an idiot for not trying this before. May indeed change my choices going forward..  Thanks for Input.

ST's now 36" from baffle to wall and the right one is virtually clear of alcove corner. Rythmik Sub has only one spot it can go.

DO YOU ADVISE SOUND PANEL TO THE RIGHT OF THE LEFT SPEAKER ON SIDE WALL OR BEHIND THE SPEAKER?

Beyond me why removing lower frequencies from your mains would give you MORE bass!   

I mean, it should make them play cleaner and purer......but they will also produce less LF. 

It must be due to the Salk repositioning and / or your sub was somehow not setup properly before.

But congrats on the gains.      Great when they are achieved with no sweat or cost.

[Bigfishhk]

9 years ago I sold my great condition Proac Response 2.5 for $1500. 

Either I was stupid or values have climbed, as I see recent ask prices in $1500 to $2000 range.

Another pair just sold $2150 in NY , to a guy who had them shipped to China!

Since u know the the 2.5 could you tell me what are strengths and weaknesses, forgetting my room..
Thanks

[Bigfishhk]

Beyond me why removing lower frequencies from your mains would give you MORE bass!   

BECAUSE UNDER 80hz there is VOLUME control on the sub and I adjusted it to give me more bass than I was getting from the mains on their own.
[/quote]

[sunnydaze]

DO YOU ADVISE SOUND PANEL TO THE RIGHT OF THE LEFT SPEAKER ON SIDE WALL OR BEHIND THE SPEAKER?

Since the left speaker is now close to where the half wall ends (I guess?), and it is firing out into a big open space,  you are likely not getting reflected sound from that side, so I'd probably not be too concerned about treating it.

Your right speaker is still fairly close to a sidewall.  I'd probably put a GIK panel between it and the listener.  Use a mirror to determine its exact location.

The front wall behind the speakers would also likely benefit from some treatments.

[sunnydaze]

Beyond me why removing lower frequencies from your mains would give you MORE bass!   

BECAUSE UNDER 80hz there is VOLUME control on the sub and I adjusted it to give me more bass than I was getting from the mains on their own.

I see....

But didn't you try adjusting subwoofer output (regardless of x-over setting) with your original setup?   If not......why not?    If one is lacking bass when using a sub, wouldn't one just raise the output and see what happens?   And / or play around with sub's low-pass setting?   

old setup:   response below 80 hz coming from Salk + sub

new setup:  response below 80 hz coming from sub only

What am I missing?    For a given sub output level, old setup will produce more bass below 80 Hz than new setup.

Only explanation I can think of is you had sub output set too low originally (and / or a non-optimal x-over point), and under new setup sub output has been raised sufficiently to more than offset the lost LF from the now high-passed Salks.

That...possibly combined with the effect of a different sub x-over point.  I believe you are playing the sub higher now......50hz vs 80hz?

[Bigfishhk]

I see....

But didn't you try adjusting subwoofer output (regardless of x-over setting) with your original setup?   If not......why not?    If one is lacking bass when using a sub, wouldn't one just raise the output and see what happens?   And / or play around with sub's low-pass setting?   

old setup:   response below 80 hz coming from Salk + sub

new setup:  response below 80 hz coming from sub only

What am I missing?    For a given sub output level, old setup will produce more bass below 80 Hz than new setup.

Good question.
old set up no 1 when I had both mains and sub at 80hz and below, did not sound good with both sub and speakers overlapping. It could be I never got the balance between them right, which is why I like the new set up no 2. The guys at Ryhmik also warned against set up no 1 and proposed set up 2. Works for me anyhow. And it's better so far anyway, than when I crossed over below 50hz only.

[JakeJ]

Everything in audio is not intuitive.

So you have a chance at a pair ProAc Response 2.5s for $1600 and while that may not be a screamin' good deal you might wait a long time for another pair kicking yourself along the way.

I do not know what drivers ProAc uses but if they are still available it would be a large consideration over a speaker that has proprietary (in-house or custom) drivers.

Now, I'm just going to throw this out on the table.  I recently bought two pieces of equipment through the old-fashioned "lay-away" plan.  One was from a private party and the other from a dealer.  I paid a substantial down payment (40-50% of price) then paid them off in decently large amounts.  The seller keeps the item until fully paid for and gives the buyer a receipt for each payment.  If for any reason the buyer can't complete the sale they get a full refund.  In my case I was able to pay for both items before the agreed upon time frame.  I now have a Pass Labs X350.5 ($12K MSRP for $5600) and an XP-20 ($8.6K MSRP for $4600) in my system and am very happy.  (Hint, hint = Vaughns)

[sunnydaze]

(Hint, hint = Vaughns)

Huh?      

What you hinting at here Jakey boy?

Wanna go layaway on my Vaughns?     

[sunnydaze]

Bigfish.....Part of the reason your current setup is better -- aside from getting LF better dialed in with sub, and different placement of mains -- is because your Salk mid/low driver has been freed up of the very low end.  It is now playing cleaner in the range above 80Hz.  Less distortion, better clarity, more open, greater ease.

This is my experience in high-passing.  The improvements are not subtle.

[JakeJ]

Huh?      

What you hinting at here Jakey boy?

Wanna go layaway on my Vaughns?     

No, silly, I'm hinting you and Tom could work this out if you both can come to an agreement on price, payments, and a window of time.  I asked both sellers for six months and paid each item off well before that.

I would go for the Vaughn's in a New York minute if you did not have to ship them.  I had a recent bad experience (UPS) shipping a pair of PMC EB1i speakers from Toronto, Canada.  The only way I will ship large speakers now is FedEx Freight which is spendy.  Like I said, if I only lived closer.  Just from doing a bit of research, and one good listening session, I would take the Vaughns over the Salks w/ sub or the ProAcs.

[JakeJ]

Bigfish.....Part of the reason your current setup is better -- aside from getting LF better dialed in with sub, and different placement of mains -- is because your Salk mid/low driver has been freed up of the very low end.  It is now playing cleaner in the range above 80Hz.  Less distortion, better clarity, more open, greater ease.

This is my experience in high-passing.  The improvements are not subtle.

Agreed!  Salk claims bass to 38 Hz.  This is due to the transmission line cabinet design but the specs on that woofer shows a Fs of 115 Hz which means they are working their ass off down low.  Take that monumental task away and they will sing!

[JakeJ]

Plus you guys are less than an hour away from one another?  That's a no-brainer to me.  Just my .02.

[Bigfishhk]

Plus you guys are less than an hour away from one another?  That's a no-brainer to me.  Just my .02.

Politely declining!! But thanks guys..

[sunnydaze]

No, silly, I'm hinting you and Tom could work this out if you both can come to an agreement on price, payments, and a window of time.  I asked both sellers for six months and paid each item off well before that.

I would go for the Vaughn's in a New York minute if you did not have to ship them.  I had a recent bad experience (UPS) shipping a pair of PMC EB1i speakers from Toronto, Canada.  The only way I will ship large speakers now is FedEx Freight which is spendy.  Like I said, if I only lived closer.  Just from doing a bit of research, and one good listening session, I would take the Vaughns over the Salks w/ sub or the ProAcs.

I would definitely take the Vaughns over the Proacs.....and I did!

The Salks?  Dunno, never heard them.  But I think I can say with some confidence that Vaughns will play much bigger, with deeper and more impactful bass.  No substitute for 12 inch self powered woofer.

First thought I had upon viewing Tom's open spacious layout is how nice Vaughns might fill that space with big slammin sound.  Plus, they are fairly flexible re: placement.  His tight setup does not make them a no go....despite being a fairly large speaker.  (However, depth and image will suffer a bit, as with just about every speaker that lacks sufficient air around them).  There is no port, and the woofer is adjustable.  Turn output up or down as needed.  Change how high it plays, as needed.  And mirror image side firing woofers means they can fire in or out, adding further integration flexibility. (Coincident Speakers Technology uses the same approach on some of their models)

Have you heard the Vaughns, Jake?

PS:  thanks for the attempted sales nudge.       

[JakeJ]

Tom,

It's all good!  Just thought it might be an opportunity lost.

John,

No, I have not heard the Vaughn's but I have been pretty successful at picking speakers by doing tons of research.  I want to move the Genesis on but would like something I can run with my Aleph 30 or an SET amp.  Recently had the good fortune to listen to a pair of DeHavilland 845 monoblock amps and it was an OMG moment.  Heard them on a set of Danny Ritchies Super V's and the owner of those is now on the hunt for a pair.

It's all about havin' fun and listening to great music on a great system.

Jake

[sunnydaze]

Loved my ASL 845 monos that I had years ago.  Sublimely musical on my Coincident Super Eclipse and Silverline Sonatina speakers.