[hdspeakerman]

Ryan and Pete,
A beautiful pair of speakers!  Congratulations on all your success. 

[branislav]

The review seemed to be thorough in the beginning but once we got to the most important part (the sound), not a whole lot has been said (except for the bass). Maybe Im missing something....

[Vapor Audio]

Doug told me his review was something like 22 pages long, and that it was going to be split into 3-4 installments.  Trust me, he's as thorough as they come, I trust there will be no questions left about just how they sound. 

He did ask me to send him any corrections, one thing this installment obviously needs is a note at the end that more is coming. 

[dex67]

regardless of how impressive those Joules might be, I won't trade up my Nimbus for them ...

[branislav]

Thanks Ryan for explaining. It all makes much more sense now....

[Folsom]

I read the whole thing! He's actually a pretty decent writer; I know because I'm not the most patient reader.

But the overall assessment seems somewhat correct. I often think to myself when I read different things, "damn Ryan needs another person that's pretty serious, like someone who mostly can do the office work, and even then probably needs another person for working on speakers, maybe just a spray guy." Another way to say it, don't kill yourself for your customers! I'm fairly certain that adjusting for employees without just cranking the cost of speakers comes with its challenges.

After working in a wood shop, I can understand the frustration with custom pieces. Wood has a mind of it's own at times, and no matter how much you know and are careful with it, it's never 100%. So I'm actually VERY surprised you offer what you do with customization. It's not easy! But I'd probably price the job at 2x the parts just in case when it comes to veneers. Sadly the reason why some things are expensive is also the reason why they're desired...

The Nimbus look has been growing on me lately. I wonder if maybe a crossover tweak could be made for the midbass drivers. But then again maybe that guy is just trying to hear something that's not there.

[dex67]

i had the same kinda feeling about the midbass, but after switching to the new int amp, the Nimbus sound absolutely fabulous!!!!!!!!!! Where can you get a speaker that looks and sounds like any of the ones from the Vapor family without spending at least 2 or 3 times the price?

[Folsom]

You can't.

[dpatters]

Vapor Joule Blacks are my best audio purchase ever.  I've had them since November 2014 and they put a smile on my face everyday!!

Don P.

[Vapor Audio]

Vapor Joule Blacks are my best audio purchase ever.  I've had them since November 2014 and they put a smile on my face everyday!!

Don P.

And you just put a smile on mine!  Thanks so much!

[douglas_schroeder]

Hey guys (and Gals?),
I don' t mean to disappoint anyone, but as they say, "That's all, folks!" Ryan, the last time I spoke with Constantine he was thinking it would be a two-part article. I presume he determined there was no easy break in the account, and decided to publish it altogether. So, I'm really sorry for not making everyone read twice or three times as much! Heheheh. Seriously, that was about 21 pages of info on Word document! I do tend to write when I enjoy a product. I'm not sure you could weight the performance solely by length of article, but it might not be a poor way for readers to gauge my enjoyment.

My sonic impressions are scattered throughout the article, i.e. discussion of the intricacies of the RAAL ribbon tweeter and the soundstage being influenced by the amp, etc. The Joule White 3 is an exceptionally well-balanced speaker top to bottom, given the attention to setup of tweeter and bass drivers. The flexibility in that regard is not so common and one of the reasons the speaker is so valuable to me.

In terms of mention of particular music, I often find that reviewers' comments on the sound of a particular piece of music, i.e. how the treble/mid/bass sounded is of little use to me. I prefer to know more about the design and potential issues than how it worked in that guy's rig. Often I find myself disagreeing with the assessment of the speaker design, yet the description of a listening experience by the reviewer is supposedly satisfactory. I tend to find analysis better than sharing an emotional moment.  However, the Joule White 3 does have an innate capacity to reach the inner emotional recesses of my mind like very few of the many speakers I've used. A speaker must be exquisitely lifelike for me to drop the analysis and simply let the music wash over me. This almost never happens to me, but with the Joule White 3 it is a regular occurrence. I don't believe I'm having that experience merely because I wish to be correct about the pursuit and purchase of it.

[Vapor Audio]

Hey guys (and Gals?),
I don' t mean to disappoint anyone, but as they say, "That's all, folks!" Ryan, the last time I spoke with Constantine he was thinking it would be a two-part article. I presume he determined there was no easy break in the account, and decided to publish it altogether. So, I'm really sorry for not making everyone read twice or three times as much! Heheheh. Seriously, that was about 21 pages of info on Word document! I do tend to write when I enjoy a product. I'm not sure you could weight the performance solely by length of article, but it might not be a poor way for readers to gauge my enjoyment.

My sonic impressions are scattered throughout the article, i.e. discussion of the intricacies of the RAAL ribbon tweeter and the soundstage being influenced by the amp, etc. The Joule White 3 is an exceptionally well-balanced speaker top to bottom, given the attention to setup of tweeter and bass drivers. The flexibility in that regard is not so common and one of the reasons the speaker is so valuable to me.

In terms of mention of particular music, I often find that reviewers' comments on the sound of a particular piece of music, i.e. how the treble/mid/bass sounded is of little use to me. I prefer to know more about the design and potential issues than how it worked in that guy's rig. Often I find myself disagreeing with the assessment of the speaker design, yet the description of a listening experience by the reviewer is supposedly satisfactory. I tend to find analysis better than sharing an emotional moment.  However, the Joule White 3 does have an innate capacity to reach the inner emotional recesses of my mind like very few of the many speakers I've used. A speaker must be exquisitely lifelike for me to drop the analysis and simply let the music wash over me. This almost never happens to me, but with the Joule White 3 it is a regular occurrence. I don't believe I'm having that experience merely because I wish to be correct about the pursuit and purchase of it.

In that case Doug, I have to agree with branislav that your review leaves more questions than it gives answers in terms of just how they perform.  You were certainly thorough however in detailing the difficulties during the build process.  I know you're in love with the speakers, but honestly it doesn't really come through in the review, and I was hoping future installments would make that fact more obvious.

[fex02]

Doug,
I agree with Ryan.While gushing over the joule, a potential new purchaser would be put off by your elaborate dissertation on the build process. I think the review "as it stands" does not provide a favorable picture of Vapor Audio.
I too ,was annoyed with the length of time it took for my Joule's. My music mentor was quick to remind me to "let the artist create".The final analysis was breathtaking .
The way the review stands "that's all folks " is unfair to the Vapor team.!

[Folsom]

*

[douglas_schroeder]

Greetings to all,
It may be more easy to see my enthusiastic reaction to the speakers if I group my declarative statements about them. It should be easier to see, then, why I feel they fulfilled my quest for an outstanding floor stander. Note the following excerpts:

There is another reason I enjoy the elevation provided by casters; it makes the Joule White 3 sound more like a cost-no-object speaker. Many of the world’s finest speaker systems are huge, several over six feet tall! A big speaker creates a fundamentally impressive, prodigious soundstage. Elevating the Joule White 3 makes it sound more like an imposing, premier speaker.

The Joule White 3 is a richer, more tonally deep speaker than the Nimbus White. Its particular drivers create a more sensuous fabric of sound, and they more accurately and widely blanket the room with that sound. The sonic “hue” is deeper, more appealing to the ear. The Joule White 3 is exceptional at this deeply enriched timbre. Its capacity in this regard reminds me of speakers known for the Midrange magic, such as older Quad speakers and High Efficiency speakers with coaxial drivers such as the Lotus Group’s Granada.



My three best audiophile friends choke in disbelief when hearing such disclosure, but to a man they all declared the Joule White 3, Exogal Comet DAC and Red Dragon S500 amps in mono mode to be clearly the best system I have ever built. Look at the list of speakers and components I have reviewed, and consider that comment from friends who have heard them, including the large Kingsound King III electrostatic speakers. Preternatural purity is a big reason why the Joule receives those accolades, as well as the vastness and completeness of the soundstage benefitted so much by the ribbon running unobstructed.

My point in discussing this is that there exist several price to performance plateaus in audio systems. A rough approximation of them might be $5K, $10K, $25K, $50K, $100K, $250K, and above. Speakers are bit trickier to nail down, as I have seen and heard offerings that in terms of performance are outliers. That is where Vapor Audio wishes to earn its keep. Can a little speaker shop make a product competitive in most respects with behemoths of the industry churning out pricey speakers?

 Ryan Scott seems obsessed with giving the average guy the chance to own a sonic equivalent of a Magico or Wilson, and for that I thank him and the Vapor team! I think it will be a long time before he and the other principles get rich off these speakers. So, because the performance is extreme, in the realm of super-speakers, I am willing to accept the problems associated with a small shop building them. If you disagree, be prepared to spend many thousands of dollars to eliminate such concerns, with no assurance the sound quality will be better.

 Can the Joule White 3 rip your head off? Yes, it can, and with style. It can put out so much clean, powerful force that it seems your body is being compressed into the listening chair, but you will enjoy it because it is so beautiful.

 It is surprising to realize that a speaker can behave so differently as to create entirely distinct experiences, yet do so with such excellence that either scheme is recommendable. That is precisely what I hoped for with the Joule White 3, a speaker that whatever direction I go I am going to have riveting listening experiences.

 I can tell you that when it arrives the wait for gorgeous aesthetics, but especially extreme sound quality and premium listening experiences will be over. In several respects Vapor Audio will have beaten the big audiophile boys at their game. You will own a speaker that performs competitively with some of “the best”, meaning names like JM Labs, Wilson, Vandersteen, YG Acoustics and Magico, and you will have done it without vaporizing tens of thousands of dollars from your bank account.


I hope this summary of my reactions shows that I am thrilled with the performance of the speakers! I plan on them making a lot of appearances in systems going forward.
 

[paul79]

People tend to focus on the negative, of which I see damn little of, and I think this is an example here. They also seem to have taken your descriptions of the build imperfections wrong as well, rather than a nice informative description of what to expect with a custom shop.

Custom work is not typically offered. Since they do offer it, allot of times the materials have never been used in speaker building, and wood is wood. It has a mind of its own, ALL THE TIME. They took steps to touch up bad spots, and make them great using the materials requested, and at a budget. That is worth something, adds character, and makes for an overall, stunning personalized achievement. Seems to me there is a lot of speaker here for the money. Not to mention, Vapor is in infancy in comparison to who they are running against (with).

I think that if one reads or re-reads the enthusiastic review of the Nimbus, they might take a bit more from your comparisons. You addressed the strength's of the Joule's, while the fundamentals and waxing is all in the Nimbus review. What more does one need??

I don't see anything wrong at all with this review, personally. Nicely done. I can also tell that you have a fair amount of experience listening to allot of speakers. You give hints along the way that trigger my experiences listening to some of the best and most expensive speakers in existence. Based on your exposure to the best of the best, and your obvious experience with them, for you to put the Joule in this category speaks volumes about the product, IMO. You are quite obviously enamored with the Vapor's. Pretty plain to me.

Also, thank you SO MUCH for not being a sappy poet in your writing. Keep it real.

If there is anything to add to your review, it is a mention and link to the Nimbus review for the people who have not read it.

Again, nicely done.

[dex67]

i bought the Nimbus after reading Doug's review about the Nimbus White...never heard the speakers, never seen them in person...and yet, after reading the review, few days later I contacted Pete and Ryan and made the arrangements to get a pair of Nimbus Black...

i have to say that by reading the review of the Joule, all those 4 pages wouldn't make pick up the phone and call Vapor...i have no doubt the Joules are amazing speakers, but the review doesn't make me (this is just my personal opinion) go 'wow! i've got to try these speakers'....

[spreadspectrum]

I don't know... I re-read the review and while I understand the comments above, I don't come away with anything but positive.  What I see is a very personal and intimate discussion about a relationship, rather than just a box with drivers - a relationship that defines the Vapor experience. The process, and the wait, are part of that relationship and are what makes the Vapor speaker unique and special.  Given the way that the review is written it is difficult for me to see Doug as anything less than just enamored with the speaker.

Perhaps I am biased because I went though a very similar experience with a similar long wait, but I feel a sense of pride in belonging to something special after reading that review.  Further, as Doug wrote above, the positive things people are looking for are in there if you sift a bit, and are more poignant and relevant when weighed against the Nimbus review.

Ryan F.

[DaveC113]

Its capacity in this regard reminds me of speakers known for the Midrange magic, such as older Quad speakers and High Efficiency speakers with coaxial drivers such as the Lotus Group’s Granada.

The Grenada is a FAST design, full range augmented with subwoofer (technology), lol... not a coax. Definitely one of the best speakers I've heard, but it uses $50k drivers and costs $200k.

I liked the review, but agree more time spent on the sound quality and what material you listened to, and how the speakers worked with different amps would be good. One issue:

...No extra notch filters, Zobel networks or contour filters are used.

-An impedance compensation network is applied to the woofer...

So that's a Zobel then, right?   Nothing wrong with that, many woofers benefit from a Zobel.

I also think it helps to explain the custom nature of the build and process, but this seemed to make up the bulk of the review.

[Pete Schumacher]

So that's a Zobel then, right?   Nothing wrong with that, many woofers benefit from a Zobel.

No, it's not a Zobel.  It is an impedance conjugate filter that takes care of the upper impedance peak of a woofer in a vented (or open TL) enclosure. 

A zobel is used to take care of the inductive rise in impedance well above the woofer's system resonance.  We employ no Zobels in any of our crossovers due to the fact that all the woofers we use employ lots of copper or aluminum around the pole which greatly reduces inductance and the need to directly compensate for it.