[ctsooner]

I have plenty of friends who are purchasing the 1 and 2's.  Is that segment as strong as the upper line?  I doubt it.  That's teh way it is for everyone in audio.  There has been a paradigm shift and that's probably why Richard went the 5 and up level to begin with.  I like what he's doing as the trickle down is amazing.  I never liked or got the 2's.  I got Proacs over them years ago, but now I listen to the monitors and less expensive floor standing speakers and they can't compete with the two's, but marketing and negative selling hurts sales I'm sure.  Bass is the most expensive part of the music chain and that's one thing the 2's can give you at that price point and they do it without fatigue. Nearly all the speakers I hear in showrooms at that price point tip up the highs a db or two.  They aren't listenable for long periods of time.  JMHO

[barrows]

It is sad...

1.  We have a dwindling "middle class" in America now, without major intervention on the part of the government, we will end up with a privledged few, and relatively poor everyone else.  Now, even doctors are underpaid for what they do and the investment they have to make in their careers.  No wonder it is hard to sell a lot of Hi Fi!
2.  Younger generations are brought up to be "multitaskers" and music listening has been relegated to a background status rather than an engrossing, stimulating, act unto itself.  Appreciation, and respect for all of the arts is dwindling, along with education and arts training.
3.  The high end audio industry is its own worst enemy-I can think of no other industry which does a worse job promoting themselves.  The shift away from good brick and mortar dealers is also not doing the industry any favors.  Walk in dealers used to provide a place for discovery of what is possible, now it is hard to find one, and many are not very accomodating to new customers if the customer does not appear to have plenty of money.  As previously mentioned, a majority of people do not even realize that high end audio exists!  I am not about to buy a McLaren, but I do know they exist, and I am not a car guy.

[7x57]

Barrows,

I tend to agree. The last major audio item I purchased was the AKG HEARO 999 Audiosphere II system. It is a pro audio based design. It bombed in the audiophile market, since they seem to not appreciate real value for money. The pro audio world moves ahead, while the high end audiophile sector tolerates the wire bandits and those who are assemblers and hucksters of what somebody else mostly built. The pro audio market seems to be a more stable sector of the industry.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I am going to play devil's advocate here.  I think that HiFi is seeing a mild resurgence in good sounding lower priced gear.  Cheap DAC's are better than higher priced DAC's of just a few years ago.  Headphone's, earbuds and headphone amps are selling well.  Inexpensive speakers have much improved sound as do digital amps.  Turntables are selling well, even though they are more of the budget TT's.  Every time I go to a music store or even the local Barnes and Noble book store, I see teenagers and young adults buying LP's.

I have a 25 year old budding audiophile son and a 29 year old daughter.  They say the issue with buying nice gear is that their generation doesn't have the money.  Good paying jobs are hard to find even with a college degree.  My kids are lucky as they have my hand me down gear.

Just remember when we were all starting out in audio.  Most of us that are 50 or 60 something years old started out with a cheap low powered Pioneer, Technics, Kenwood or similar receiver and moved up the chain as money allowed.  I was still using my 1970's and 80's gear up until age 45 or so.

[ctsooner]

All valid points for sure.  I have the 20 yo daughter in college and she is in a house with three other women and I gave her a Marantz integrated with a small pair of Paradigm speakers and a top Paradigm sub.  I set it up for them and they love it.  They had no idea what they were missing.  They aren't and probably won't be audiophiles.  They see my cool looking Noble IEM's and my AQ Dragonfly Red and say that's neat.  They do hear a difference, but it doesn't matter that much. 

Even when I grew up we all had cool receivers.  My buddy was given the Sansui quad receiver and I forget the rest of his rig.  My dad had a pioneer receiver and the matching TT (I put an top Grado cart on it and my brother uses it today).  I had the Yamaha natural sound, CR 620 receiver with matching YP 211 TT with a top Grado MM (former brother in law still uses it and it sounds good for what it is) and house made 3 way speakers.  I Quickly purchased a pair of Polk 10's when they came out to pair with the Yamaha gear with the Polk cables, lol. Then it was onto Luxman integrated when I heard the sound difference and once I was in the Navy after college, it was an Iverson Eagle, Robertson and then Moscode (Harvey was a character to say the least and Iverson may or may not be living and if so, it's not in the US anymore, lol).  I also purchased a pair of Stax Lambda Pro cans with their portable/battery operated amp that I'm still trying to sell. I sold the can's last year.  That portable set up went with my Sony 501ES, the first ever commercial CD player.  I got it the day CD was released in Japan and it wasn't even in the US for 6 months after I believe.  My ship was over there and I knew it was coming out so that's why I got the cans.  It was perfect for listening as I was at sea nearly 75% of the next 5 years.

The system went up from there and is still doing up. I just sold the Treo's and will order Quatro's this week and then sent send my Ayre AX5/20 integrated back to have them install the by-pass filter into the amp. 

When you look at how much money you used to have into your system, it was a fair amount.  College takes up way too much money for these kids now.  They also spend that stereo money on new phones ever 6 months, game boxes and new games, streaming, internet and who knows what else.  Life changes and the companies who started in the 70's and are still going strong and growing stuns me.  What Richard has been able to do is amazing.  He's still coming out with GREAT new speakers and making his older ones better than most folks new ones for the price.  To me, that's crazy.  He's kept prices down on the lower two models. 

To get the sound you can get out of a pair of 1B's with a small NAD integrated amp (B stock) and a Chord Mojo or Music Hall 25.2 DAC or even streaming Tidal via your phone with a less expensive DAC gives you really good sound.  Much better than the compressed stuff and it's not huge and it can be moved.  We have never had a lot of folk who knew the high end was out here.  Growing up I turned so many onto a pair of Heresy's with a larger Yamaha integrated amp.  To this day, many are still using and fixing those two or getting new gear all over again. 

[RandyH]

Kinda off topic but still very much about Vandersteen:  I just auditioned the Quatro CT and the Proac D48 a couple of days ago. Both great speakers.  Bottom line; I am on the verge of ordering a pair of Quatros'.  ctsooner, this question is addressed to you.  You mention in your post "I just sold the Treo's and will order Quatro's this week and then sent send my Ayre AX5/20 integrated back to have them install the by-pass filter into the amp."  Why are you installing the by-pass filter in the amp rather than using the ones that Vandersteen provides?  Just curious.



Randy 

[DogsPart2]

Still love my 2CE SigII.

Every so often I get the itch to possibly upgrade to Treos. However, I love my current speakers and for no additional cash on my part, they still sound pretty damn fine!

[nrenter]

RandyH,

I can help answer that question. The filters offered by Vandersteen go between the pre-amp and the power amp. But what if you're using an integrated amplifier (i.e a pre-amp and power amp in one box, with no pre-amp out / power amp in)? Sometimes (like in the case of Ayre) the manufacturer will install the first-order filter into the integrated for you. I drive my Quatro CTs with an Ayre AX-7e integrated amp - I had to send my integrated back to Ayre for filter installation.

The good news is that it's far less expensive to have Ayre install the filter caps than purchasing the filters from Vandersteen. The bad news is that you're "stuck" only using that integrated w/ speaker systems that require a first order roll-off -3dB @ 100 Hz.

[RandyH]

duh....of course!  The answer was too obvious.    In any case, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.  I would further appreciate any observations or comments you might have regarding the ownership and performance of the Quatro CT. 

[undertow]

Maybe?!!

Used gear has gotten soooooo hard to sell lately, compared to just 10 or 15 yrs ago.  Even really good stuff at great rock bottom prices.   To me, a less liquid and vibrant used marketplace is a  sure indication of shrinking demand and desire for the goods. 

It's definitely dying and will shrink into a tiny irrelevant niche when all us late baby boomers are gone.  If it's not there already.

This is ridiculously true!

But this is not helped by Audiogon increasing their fee's 500% to 3,700% on pretty much all items for the AD in the first place.

Mainly you got Joe Blow, and the dealers now cranking up price to not just cover these fee's, but than the shipping from everywhere on items over 10 to 15 lbs has gone up nearly 300% in the last 5 to 10 years as well hurting all used gear sales.

So not just the mismatch of cost vs. value coming into play, but everybody much like housing is taking a shot at making that extra little kick because they know once it's gone they can't sell it again, and the buyer [sucker] they sold to will likely never be able to sell again anyway much like people will be forced to die in all these overpriced houses as nobody will take them off their hands at such ridiculous pricing.

Same action / reaction is applying here on a smaller scale. Fed Ex fee's are just a tax going up, just like property tax on those bloated houses!

Simple musical chairs just don't get stuck without a chair when the music stops!

[Sense63]

This is ridiculously true!

But this is not helped by Audiogon increasing their fee's 500% to 3,700% on pretty much all items for the AD in the first place.

Mainly you got Joe Blow, and the dealers now cranking up price to not just cover these fee's, but than the shipping from everywhere on items over 10 to 15 lbs has gone up nearly 300% in the last 5 to 10 years as well hurting all used gear sales.

So not just the mismatch of cost vs. value coming into play, but everybody much like housing is taking a shot at making that extra little kick because they know once it's gone they can't sell it again, and the buyer they sold to will likely never be able to sell again anyway much like people will be forced to die in all these overpriced houses as nobody will take them off their hands at such ridiculous pricing.

Same action / reaction is applying here on a smaller scale. Fed Ex fee's are just a tax going up, just like property tax on those bloated houses!

Simple just don't get stuck without a chair when the music stops!

Wholeheartedly agree!

I do want to add to the discussion, but want to start by saying that my comments are in no way a slam on Vandersteen speakers.   

One of my first high end speaker purchases was the model 2CE Sig ll's.  They were a dealer recommendation and at first, I really enjoyed them.  As I got further into the hobby, I started listening to other offerings and I found that I liked the sound from other speakers better.  A couple things I'll add (please forgive the shallowness) is that the lower offerings from Vandersteen look, well, old fashioned and monolithic.  They also require special spade connectors and I really wanted to try different cables as well and felt like I was limited in my choices.  In fact, I really prefer banana connectors for reasons I'll leave out of this discussion.  Also, technology has really progressed and the offerings under $2.5k are pretty great right now.

Having said all that, the quality and sound of Vandersteen products is exemplary and I have heard his more costly offerings which are stellar.

[ctsooner]

Guys, I've had many conversations with Richard about the speaker connection strips.  He's listened to everything under the sun and they just sound best. They don't have the gassing problems that most others have and you can get any wire with the proper size spades if you order them that way.  As for using different cables, his dealers have enough variety of cables that sound great with his speakers, so you shouldn't have a major problem. Bottom line is that he only cares about what sounds best and is driven that way. 

As for installing the crossover in the Ayre, they have spoken to Richard and they use the proper caps etc...  It will sound better than using the external crossover, so for me it make sense.  I'll have the speakers by the end of Feb I'm sure.  They will be in Audi Havana Black, which is what I have really wanted.  Should be awesome. 

[ctsooner]

I want to make sure I said things correctly in my last post.  If I had a pre out on my integrated, I'd use the external crossover as THAT's always going to sound the best as it has a battery bias and used the best caps.  For my purposes using the integrated, it's the best solution for my needs.  Hope came out properly.