Sound Damping Material

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dB Cooper

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #20 on: 12 Dec 2017, 03:07 am »
Haven't had any problems with that but as this thread gets more views (some other people here have done it too) you may get other suggestions. Yeah, towers can take quite a bit but it still might be cheaper than an 'audiophile' solution.Most important areas to treat  IMO are the speaker frameworks themselves followed by the front and rear baffle surfaces. The article has recommendations about this and in one of the later issues, someone wrote in about doing some big Bozaks.

(I like this GETRDUN guy; he's jumping right into it!)

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #21 on: 12 Dec 2017, 03:39 am »
Haven't had any problems with that but as this thread gets more views (some other people here have done it too) you may get other suggestions. Yeah, towers can take quite a bit but it still might be cheaper than an 'audiophile' solution.Most important areas to treat  IMO are the speaker frameworks themselves followed by the front and rear baffle surfaces. The article has recommendations about this and in one of the later issues, someone wrote in about doing some big Bozaks.

(I like this GETRDUN guy; he's jumping right into it!)

Hehehe! I usually jump into things head over heals! lol..I have lined smaller enclosures with egg crate foam and some acousta-stuf, but this is my first tall floor stander, and also have heard that the egg-crate foam is not ideal compared to the denim insulation. I was thinking about maybe cutting the 2" denim in half (having around a 1" thickness) and then staple it to the back and sides of the towers? Maybe some sharp scissors will do it..lol..not sure, as I have not messed with denim insulation!

S Clark

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #22 on: 12 Dec 2017, 04:30 am »
If No-Rez is too expensive, then get the heaviest carpet pad  you  can find, and glue a self adhesive vinyl floor tile to it.  Then stick the tile to the cabinet.  That's a better solution than any egg crate.  Also, if you've got 41" sides, get some braces in there every 12" or so. 
No Rez is the best stuff out there, IMHO.  But if you are trying to make a DIY design on the cheap, use the carpet pad. 

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #23 on: 12 Dec 2017, 05:13 am »
If No-Rez is too expensive, then get the heaviest carpet pad  you  can find, and glue a self adhesive vinyl floor tile to it.  Then stick the tile to the cabinet.  That's a better solution than any egg crate.  Also, if you've got 41" sides, get some braces in there every 12" or so. 
No Rez is the best stuff out there, IMHO.  But if you are trying to make a DIY design on the cheap, use the carpet pad.

So the carpet pad would be the same comparing it to the denim insulation? I had purchased some 1" Dacron polyester fiberfill a while back, do you think that would be OK? And I do plan to put some bracing inside as well. I just need to see exactly where the woofers will be and brace in between them! Thanks for your reply!

charmerci

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #24 on: 12 Dec 2017, 05:44 am »
I pretty sure that simple bracing (3 up in both directions) would be just as effective in damping  the insides.

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #25 on: 12 Dec 2017, 07:47 am »
I pretty sure that simple bracing (3 up in both directions) would be just as effective in damping  the insides.

OK, that sounds like a plan! So say 3 braces in each cabinet like putting in shelves? Should I make these braces out of 3/4" MDF and maybe route out a hole in the center for the air movement to pass?

JLM

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #26 on: 12 Dec 2017, 11:03 am »
OK, that sounds like a plan! So say 3 braces in each cabinet like putting in shelves? Should I make these braces out of 3/4" MDF and maybe route out a hole in the center for the air movement to pass?


Welcome.

Either a MDF/large hole or a 'window framing' made from dimensional lumber approach would work.  I prefer the window framing unless you set the MDF into glued grooves recessed into the front/back/side walls to ensure a solid build.

For the suggested 'half wall' materials make sure to include the back wall, a side wall, and either top or bottom (opposing walls treated/not treated).  Note that the back wall behind the drivers are the most critical as the rear sound wave can easily transmit through cone material that creates distorted and out of phase sound waves out the front of the drivers.

Make sure not to put the woofers at one end and port at the opposite end of the cabinet.  This turns a simple ported design into a pipe (like a flute that has specific resonances).

maty


GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #28 on: 17 Dec 2017, 09:13 am »
I just wanted to say thanks to each and everyone that responded here!

After reading/searching for good materials to use inside a speaker cabinet, I have a question about No-Rez versus the Sonic Barrier 1-1/4" 3-layer sound damping material with PSA. Is one better than the other? It looks like they are similar? Seems like this would be the easiest to line my cabinets with, besides using a combination of other materials! Thanks!!! 

maty

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #29 on: 17 Dec 2017, 09:45 am »
I do not know but... inside the box you need two materials:

* cushioning, to add mass

* deadening, to create a big virtual box

With a viscoelastic material you add mass + elasticity that is better than only mass.

With rockwool, fiberglass (better with gloves)... the second.

In the past I made sandwichs wit two layers of viscoelastic (Tecsound SY70) and fiberglass (now I would do with rockwool).

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-denon-panel-fibra-tecsoundx2-quilosa.jpg


maty

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #30 on: 17 Dec 2017, 09:49 am »
More here:

Re: KEF Q100 and KEF LS50 impedance curves. Resonance?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140196.msg1494331#msg1494331

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #31 on: 17 Dec 2017, 10:00 am »
I do not know but... inside the box you need two materials:

* cushioning, to add mass

* deadening, to create a big virtual box

With a viscoelastic material you add mass + elasticity that is better than only mass.

With rockwool, fiberglass (better with gloves)... the second.

In the past I made sandwichs wit two layers of viscoelastic (Tecsound SY70) and fiberglass (now I would do with rockwool).

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-denon-panel-fibra-tecsoundx2-quilosa.jpg

So a combination of Tecsound SY70 for damping the cabinet resonance, and the rockwool to break/absorb soundwaves? Not sure if those materials you mention are available here in the USA?

maty


maty

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #33 on: 17 Dec 2017, 10:46 am »
Spain, Tecsound SY 70 (7 Kg/m2), in warehouse: € 11.35 / m2. The unit is 6.16 m2.

https://isolana.es/es/documentacion/tarifa-de-precios-2015/tarifa-de-precios-ap2.pdf

....

Jimmy Cobb - Jazz in the Key of Blue (2009) {24-96} [FLAC]

https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Blue-Jimmy-Cobb-Quartet/dp/B002M9FYFS

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #34 on: 17 Dec 2017, 01:13 pm »
Spain, Tecsound SY 70 (7 Kg/m2), in warehouse: € 11.35 / m2. The unit is 6.16 m2.

https://isolana.es/es/documentacion/tarifa-de-precios-2015/tarifa-de-precios-ap2.pdf

....

Jimmy Cobb - Jazz in the Key of Blue (2009) {24-96} [FLAC]

https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Blue-Jimmy-Cobb-Quartet/dp/B002M9FYFS

I'm a little confused! :roll: You posted a link of the Tecsound material above, and it is showing the rockwool material? Also, you mention the Sonic Barrier Vinyl sound damping sheets. Wouldn't this be part of the 3 component Sonic Barrier material shown here:
https://www.parts-express.com/sonic-barrier-1-1-4-3-layer-acoustic-sound-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535

maty

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #35 on: 17 Dec 2017, 02:01 pm »
Absortion != cushioning

* If the boxes walls are not very thick then it is advisable to add mass or mass + elastic.

* To reduce internal reflections, absorbent material is added, like rockwool, wadding and others.


Quote
I built the cabinets for a 2-1/2 way design. The cabinets are 41-1/2" tall, not including the base, and are 9" wide X 15" deep. The total internal air-space is 2.25 cubic feet! This is without anything inside yet! They are made from 3/4" MDF.

They are not very thick. If you want to reduce the walls vibrations...

The front is very critical, there you should have a greater thickness.

Absortion materials work with frequency > 500 Hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/sonic-barrier-1-1-4-3-layer-acoustic-sound-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535

It is the same product that:

http://gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx more expensive

It is a comfortable solution but I do not know if it is very effective. I rely on data, graphs, measurements... Calculate how much you need and what it costs to have them in your home.

The key question is how much are you going to spend in the boxes.

S Clark

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #36 on: 17 Dec 2017, 02:25 pm »
Sorry, but Sonic Barrier and No-Rez are not the same material.  No Rez is denser and has a mass layer only next to the cabinet.  Having a layer in the middle only creates a reflection surface while not dampening the cabinet. 
Spend the extra few bucks and buy the better product.  You've been waffling on this for a week now, trying to save twenty bucks.  If you want the best buy the No-Rez.  If you need to save the cash, make your own version out of vinyl tiles and carpet padding.  Two sheets is more than enough.  You could get by with one if used on the back panel, and the middle of the sides, with home made (tile/carpet pad) filling in the top and bottom of the sides. 
By the way, I've actually used both in speaker designs- so this isn't just my speculation. 

Folsom

Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #37 on: 17 Dec 2017, 02:49 pm »
no-rez >

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #38 on: 17 Dec 2017, 04:48 pm »
Absortion != cushioning

* If the boxes walls are not very thick then it is advisable to add mass or mass + elastic.

* To reduce internal reflections, absorbent material is added, like rockwool, wadding and others.


They are not very thick. If you want to reduce the walls vibrations...

The front is very critical, there you should have a greater thickness.

Absortion materials work with frequency > 500 Hz.

https://www.parts-express.com/sonic-barrier-1-1-4-3-layer-acoustic-sound-damping-material-with-psa-18-x-24--260-535

It is the same product that:

http://gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx more expensive

It is a comfortable solution but I do not know if it is very effective. I rely on data, graphs, measurements... Calculate how much you need and what it costs to have them in your home.

The key question is how much are you going to spend in the boxes.

Thanks! I was able to locate some of the Roxul Rockboard 80, mineral wool board that is 2" thick. It's also available in Rockboard 60. Would this be the same material that you mentioned? I also found some 1/8" mass loaded vinyl 1lb soundproofing barrier. It says it blocks frequencies from 4000hz all the way down to 125hz.

My question is would these 2 materials combined do a good job for the vibrations as well as internal reflections? Thanks!

GETRDUN

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Re: Sound Damping Material
« Reply #39 on: 17 Dec 2017, 04:56 pm »
Sorry, but Sonic Barrier and No-Rez are not the same material.  No Rez is denser and has a mass layer only next to the cabinet.  Having a layer in the middle only creates a reflection surface while not dampening the cabinet. 
Spend the extra few bucks and buy the better product.  You've been waffling on this for a week now, trying to save twenty bucks.  If you want the best buy the No-Rez.  If you need to save the cash, make your own version out of vinyl tiles and carpet padding.  Two sheets is more than enough.  You could get by with one if used on the back panel, and the middle of the sides, with home made (tile/carpet pad) filling in the top and bottom of the sides. 
By the way, I've actually used both in speaker designs- so this isn't just my speculation.

There is no need to bash me here about waffling or trying to save money! I'm only trying to factor in what will work best for my application, and also learning as well. I do see what you are saying about the no-rez being better than the sonic barrier after comparing the two. So can you tell me how you would compare the tile/carpet padding versus the no-rez?