[BrassEar]

Hi John:

Welcome to your first thread that requires some "Facilitator help."

I am unclear why an "Industry Participant" (i.e. a speaker manufacturer) who sells and markets cones, tweeters, and crossovers in boxes is allowed to post here criticizing open baffle and full range designs?

Would an OB manufacturer like Clayton Shaw be allowed to go on other forums and bash box speakers with crossovers while arguing the features of open baffle designs? This just doesn't seem fair to me.

[Wind Chaser]

And zero bass open baffle

But that's not entirely true, is it? 

[goskers]

Hi John:

Welcome to your first thread that requires some "Facilitator help."

I am unclear why an "Industry Participant" (i.e. a speaker manufacturer) who sells and markets cones, tweeters, and crossovers in boxes is allowed to post here criticizing open baffle and full range designs?

Would an OB manufacturer like Clayton Shaw be allowed to go on other forums and bash box speakers with crossovers while arguing the features of open baffle designs? This just doesn't seem fair to me.

Perhaps you need to look at what he designs first.  There may just be some more to it than box speakers.  Perhaps he is challenging some as to offer up advice because he has been there before. 

[JohnR]

Welcome to your first thread that requires some "Facilitator help."

I am unclear why an "Industry Participant" (i.e. a speaker manufacturer) who sells and markets cones, tweeters, and crossovers in boxes is allowed to post here criticizing open baffle and full range designs?

Umm... my first challenge is understanding what you are talking about... Who exactly are you referring to / or which post(s)?

Ta 

[JohnR]

But that's not entirely true, is it? 

I enjoyed that video (although as always I tend to skim...), in particular the Sherwood amp. Off-topic, I had at one time a Sherwood integrated amp that consisted of a stereo preamp but only a mono power amp. It was from the dawn of stereo... the idea was that it was mono but if you wanted stereo you could just plug in a mono power amp to get the second channel. An evolutionary dead-end, but an interesting curiosity. I guess I must have sold it.

[AJinFLA]

But that's not entirely true, is it? 

With a bass control and Youtube phone recording, anything is possible 

[BrassEar]

Umm... my first challenge is understanding what you are talking about... Who exactly are you referring to / or which post(s)?

Ta 

OK, no problem John. If I am the only one that sees this and is bothered, I will politely bow out here!   

[Shakeydeal]

You are NOT the only one........


Shakey

[FullRangeMan]

But that's not entirely true, is it? 

I noted this Sherwood integrated amp have tone controls and loudness I not familiar w/this amp and was not able to see if he is using, I suppose some people dont mind in use it.

[Dieterle Tool]

OK, no problem John. If I am the only one that sees this and is bothered, I will politely bow out here!   

Not entirely bothered by it but it seems pretty obvious to me too.

-Dieter

[JohnR]

OK. Is anyone going to tell me what it is that's so obvious? 

I mean, on the one hand, I say I don't see it, and all I get is "I'll bow out" and it's "pretty obvious." And someone else feels compelled to loudly announce out of nowhere that he has  bowed out.

 

What were we talking about? Oh right. Linkwitz - I guess anyone that's read his site would know that he's very much in favor of measurements, electronic EQ (for drivers) and active crossovers for multiway speakers.

[Wind Chaser]

I noted this Sherwood integrated amp have tone controls and loudness I not familiar w/this amp and was not able to see if he is using, I suppose some people dont mind in use it.

If you watch the video carefully in full screen, you can see that the tone controls are in the neutral position.

[Russell Dawkins]

If you watch the video carefully in full screen, you can see that the tone controls are in the neutral position.

Well, bass is down a little, treble boosted a little more, and 'loudness' is switched to 'in'.
I wonder if loudness was linked to volume control as in certain Yamahas. From what I am hearing I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the loudness circuit in the Sherwood is fairly un-subtle, in that treble boost is audible and bass boost substantial.

[AJinFLA]

Not sure how a thread about Linkwitz on OB was subverted to a referendum on wide range drivers, but I suppose there is a connection, i.e. his LX Mini design in fact does use a wideband...and a proper bass driver for well, bass. Performance results very clear from the measured data, if one can comprehend such things. YMMV.
No need to lie on floor for decent soundstage height rendition either 

[Russell Dawkins]

The IMD test you showed has nothing to do with "settling time" as you seem to define it, so I guess my confusion is your conflation of issues. You also first mentioned a music signal and seem to be ascribing cause>effect. Multitones are used as probes for non-linearities, which can range from motor distortions, cone/suspension/mechanical distortions and in the case of a Neuman system test, perhaps even enclosure. They don't provide any references for their audibility claims, so I'll have to investigate that one.
You seem to be claiming cause>effect audibility of an effect that you have self defined. I don't see any evidence to support such conclusion, hence me inquiring.

cheers,

AJ

At the time this thread was active I was too busy to give sufficient time to a reply and still am, to give the subject real justice, but I saw a reference that reminded me of it and I post that below.

AJ, your technical knowledge appears to exceed mine, but I would have thought the noise between the discrete tones in that graph would have as its source, as well as the distortions you identify, some of which after-ringing (or settling behaviour) of the cone/surround (or radiating surface, to include planar speakers) caused by the resonant characteristics of all the driver's moving parts as well as the internal noise of the box being transmitted through the cone. All of this to say that I would have thought that the IMD results would certainly have a lot to do with settling time, or decay time, if you prefer, otherwise what would the source of that noise between those discrete tones?

As to the importance of fast settling time, it seems I am not alone in finding it significant. I don't know about you, but I respect Lynn Olson's thoroughness. See what he says about that, here, in the middle of the page: http://www.nutshellhifi.com/MLS/MLS2.html