[KeithA]

when i bought this equipment i also got the shop (shadow audio, great guys) to get me a "Bryston" balanced 0.5 mtr interconnect costing me £110 which was sourced through PMC (its a british company that supplies the cable branded as bryston to bryston apparently) when I recieved this interconnect I discovered that it was just a bog standard interconnect lead using simple (but decent i guess) microphone cable with no dielectic or any shielding of any kind. VERY disapointing and was a total ripp-off.

Do I get it right, Bryston balanced interconnects do not have any shielding?
If it is true, I would definitely like to try it.
I am not 100% certain but it would seem that I prefer balanced cables with little or no shielding, and that applies to power cables as well, for example I do not like those with heavy shielding and ferrite particles embedded in outer skin.
Not sure what you mean by no dielectric, there ought to be some, it is not bare wire?

James, could you please comment on no shielding story?

I'm sure he means no 'flex' jacket or the like.

Keith

[Bassmann]

Sasha

I think I should of said that it has little shielding not no shielding. For the money I paid which was £110 - probably $200 USD back then, I was expecting a little more than I got because you could make it yourself for less than £15. Probably the dealer fleeced me.

[James Tanner]

when i bought this equipment i also got the shop (shadow audio, great guys) to get me a "Bryston" balanced 0.5 mtr interconnect costing me £110 which was sourced through PMC (its a british company that supplies the cable branded as bryston to bryston apparently) when I recieved this interconnect I discovered that it was just a bog standard interconnect lead using simple (but decent i guess) microphone cable with no dielectic or any shielding of any kind. VERY disapointing and was a total ripp-off.

Do I get it right, Bryston balanced interconnects do not have any shielding?
If it is true, I would definitely like to try it.
I am not 100% certain but it would seem that I prefer balanced cables with little or no shielding, and that applies to power cables as well, for example I do not like those with heavy shielding and ferrite particles embedded in outer skin.
Not sure what you mean by no dielectric, there ought to be some, it is not bare wire?

James, could you please comment on no shielding story?

Hi Sasha,

For our Balanced XLR cables we use VanDamme Microphone cable with gold plated Neutrik XLR connectors.
Heres a link - http://www.van-damme.com/products.htm (click on Classic Quad Microphone Series)

james

[Brown]

Excuse the intrusion as I no longer am a Bryston owner. My question is why did you choose that cable. Was it for the spec of the cable to a synergy with your components or another reason. I am curious how and why a component manf. chooses their cabling. Thank you. This is NOT cable debate question. Just curious. trying to learn something.

[KeithA]

Excuse the intrusion as I no longer am a Bryston owner. My question is why did you choose that cable. Was it for the spec of the cable to a synergy with your components or another reason. I am curious how and why a component manf. chooses their cabling. Thank you. This is NOT cable debate question. Just curious. trying to learn something.

Not to answer for James.....

But I suspect that the engineering attributes of that cable (capacitance, etc) are well within the paramaeters of what would make a cable neutral from an theoretical engineering perspective.

Keith

[James Tanner]

Excuse the intrusion as I no longer am a Bryston owner. My question is why did you choose that cable. Was it for the spec of the cable to a synergy with your components or another reason. I am curious how and why a component manf. chooses their cabling. Thank you. This is NOT cable debate question. Just curious. trying to learn something.

Not to answer for James.....

But I suspect that the engineering attributes of that cable (capacitance, etc) are well within the paramaeters of what would make a cable neutral from an theoretical engineering perspective.

Keith

Hi All,

Correct Keith - my point of view is that the best interconnect cable or speaker cable is no cable at all. So the cable that changes the signal the least is what I prefer.  I usually try different cables at home (currently have about 5 different types) and run comparisons which is quite interesting.

My position on cables has always been that cables do sound different but that difference can be interpreted as different 'better' or different 'worse' - depending on a specific system. Also I have always felt that you can not tell people they don't hear what they hear - all we can do is try to discover what is going on electrically and mechanically in a specfic cable or system to cause those sonic differences.

james

[James Tanner]

when i bought this equipment i also got the shop (shadow audio, great guys) to get me a "Bryston" balanced 0.5 mtr interconnect costing me £110 which was sourced through PMC (its a british company that supplies the cable branded as bryston to bryston apparently) when I recieved this interconnect I discovered that it was just a bog standard interconnect lead using simple (but decent i guess) microphone cable with no dielectic or any shielding of any kind. VERY disapointing and was a total ripp-off.

Do I get it right, Bryston balanced interconnects do not have any shielding?
If it is true, I would definitely like to try it.
I am not 100% certain but it would seem that I prefer balanced cables with little or no shielding, and that applies to power cables as well, for example I do not like those with heavy shielding and ferrite particles embedded in outer skin.
Not sure what you mean by no dielectric, there ought to be some, it is not bare wire?

James, could you please comment on no shielding story?

Hi Sasha,

I have been experimenting with Balanced cables having no shield - or more correctly shield connected at one end only or not at all.  I would be interested on you elaborating on your comments above.

james

[cmreddy]

Has anyone tried those Anticables (www.anticables.com) ? I use them, but mine is Arcam AVR 250 receiver. So, i cant blame either the reciever or the cable.. May be the combination of both that makes my Focals Electra BEs sound just bad.. 

[Sasha]

when i bought this equipment i also got the shop (shadow audio, great guys) to get me a "Bryston" balanced 0.5 mtr interconnect costing me £110 which was sourced through PMC (its a british company that supplies the cable branded as bryston to bryston apparently) when I recieved this interconnect I discovered that it was just a bog standard interconnect lead using simple (but decent i guess) microphone cable with no dielectic or any shielding of any kind. VERY disapointing and was a total ripp-off.

Do I get it right, Bryston balanced interconnects do not have any shielding?
If it is true, I would definitely like to try it.
I am not 100% certain but it would seem that I prefer balanced cables with little or no shielding, and that applies to power cables as well, for example I do not like those with heavy shielding and ferrite particles embedded in outer skin.
Not sure what you mean by no dielectric, there ought to be some, it is not bare wire?

James, could you please comment on no shielding story?

Hi Sasha,

I have been experimenting with Balanced cables having no shield - or more correctly shield connected at one end only or not at all.  I would be interested on you elaborating on your comments above.

james

James,

It was my impression, the margin of error is quite high as I did not have let’s say 10 ICs or power cables for side to side comparison, but in general I find the sound more open and dynamically less restricted with cables of such construction.
For this reason I for example ended up using stock power cables with my 7B SST amps for now, it seemed to me that once you have an appropriate gauge the less is more, did not like those with elaborate multiple shielding. I did find in the end a power cable that I will use on all the gear including amps (it is just a bulk wire, not a commercially made power cable), heard in my system and liked it, once I am done with my speakers I will start making these power cables (wire + some hospital grade connectors). This wire has shielding though, but simple one.
And I ended up with VDH wire for my balanced interconnects, again similar experience based on few ICs I tried. And I like balanced ICs better than single ended regardless.
I tried to rationalize this, one explanation could be that combined dielectric properties of all those materials used in such elaborate applications result in signal smearing, or in case of power cables result in undesired impedance, inductivity?
The same reason why capacitors sound different?
Anyway, I was wondering what the end result would be if balanced IC was made of copper wire with very thin insulator, maybe a coat of something to prevent oxidation, and no shielding of any kind?
Assuming your place is not RF polluted, why would you need shield on balanced IC anyway?

[Brown]

Excuse the intrusion as I no longer am a Bryston owner. My question is why did you choose that cable. Was it for the spec of the cable to a synergy with your components or another reason. I am curious how and why a component manf. chooses their cabling. Thank you. This is NOT cable debate question. Just curious. trying to learn something.

Not to answer for James.....

But I suspect that the engineering attributes of that cable (capacitance, etc) are well within the paramaeters of what would make a cable neutral from an theoretical engineering perspective.

Keith

Hi All,

Correct Keith - my point of view is that the best interconnect cable or speaker cable is no cable at all. So the cable that changes the signal the least is what I prefer.  I usually try different cables at home (currently have about 5 different types) and run comparisons which is quite interesting.

My position on cables has always been that cables do sound different but that difference can be interpreted as different 'better' or different 'worse' - depending on a specific system. Also I have always felt that you can not tell people they don't hear what they hear - all we can do is try to discover what is going on electrically and mechanically in a specfic cable or system to cause those sonic differences.

james

Thank you for the response. Would it be possible to identify the Cap, inductance and impedance of the desired cable ? To use as a guide in selecting after market ICs and speaker cables. What I'm getting at is that the specs of the cable that best suits your components. It would certainly narrow the chase. All one would have to do is look for a manf of cable that meets that crteria. What do you think ?

[James Tanner]

Hi Brown,

Here is something I wrote a while ago for a newsletter. 

There is not a day that goes by where I do not get asked what cable Bryston recommends with our amplifiers. Hopefully the following will assist you in weeding through some of these complex issues.

Part of the problem is that there is an awful lot of marketing going on and not much science in some cases. The 'elaborate packaging' of these interconnects and speaker cables may make you feel warm and fuzzy but the electrical characteristics are still the primary issue of concern. Simply stated the geometry (where the plus is relative to the minus) of a cable determines the inter-relationship between the measured performance of a specific cable. These measured performance criteria are call the 'Primary Constants'. They are R-resistance, L- inductance, C- shunt capacitance and G-shunt conductance. You can play around with all types of exotic packaging and add-on appendages you like but ultimately the measured performance (primary constants) tell the tale.

Bryston does not think cables should be 'voiced' to sound a specific way. The best cable is NO cable at all so we contend that the best cable is the cable that changes the signal the least.
 
An analogue Preamp/Amplifier connection is a 'high impedance interface' therefore; you are looking for low measured Capacitance. An interconnect cable acts like a capacitor in the signal path so the better that capacitor the better the interconnect. We use an interconnect wire with (very low capacitance) and the RCA connectors are made for us in Switzerland. The RCA cables 'make and break ground' first and last when connecting and disconnecting. This prevents ugly pops and bangs from going through your system with the possible negative results.
 
The XLR cables we use are also very low in capacitance. Actually the XLR cable we are currently using is in fact low noise balanced microphone cable with 100% shield coverage against RF. The advantage of Balanced XLR cables is that they have a noise canceling effect know as 'common mode noise reduction'. This helps prevent noise and hum from affecting your system. With today's complexity of audio and video surround systems this is a big plus, so if you 'got em-use em'.
 
With 'Digital' interconnects things are a lot different. The wavelengths of digital signals are 'very short' (same for FM) so the lengths and terminations are much more critical than with the analogue signals previously discussed. When the wavelength of the signal the cable is used for approaches 1/30th of the length of the cable then transmission line effects start to appear and much more attention has to be paid to the connection and termination. If not then reflections and cancellation of data is a real possibility. For instance the AES/EBU digital connection on the back of the Bryston CD Player should be used with a cable having an impedance of 110 ohms.
 
Video cables also operate at very high frequencies - typically 5-6 MHz for Composite and S-Video and 8-30 MHz for Component Video depending on the scan rate and resolution. So again understanding the wavelengths of the signals and interfaces involved is important.
 
The Amplifier/Speaker interface is a 'low impedance' connection. Therefore, in a speaker cable you are looking for low 'self inductance' (because inductance rolls off the top end) as opposed to 'low capacitance' required in the RCA or XLR analogue interconnect. For speaker cables we use a stranded 9 gauge linear crystal copper with 'Heavily Gold plated' Spade lugs or Expandable Banana plugs specially made for Bryston.

General Conclusions:
1.The connection should be of similar metals (preferably gold) and be airtight. If not airtight it will break down molecularly over time and begin to rectify or produce a diode effect on the signal.

2.With all the RF floating around today the better the 'Shield' on the interconnect the less intrusive the RF will be.

3.The connection between your analogue Source components (Preamplifier, CD Player, Tuner, DVD Player etc.) is a 'High Impedance' connection and the interface between your power amplifier and your speakers is a 'Low Impedance' connection. So, the requirements are totally different for optimizing these interfaces.
 
4.Digital and Video cables are much more susceptible to reflection/phase/cancellation problems because of their short wavelengths relative to cable length.

As you can see from the above, no surprise that people hear differences in cables when connected to the variety of equipment in the market today. Given the differences in input and output impedance's between transistor and tube gear, the lack of understanding of the high impedance and low impedance interfaces, the world of RF, and the digital/video connection issues no wonder we have these differences of opinion.

RECOMMENDATIONS: I highly recommend keeping the speaker wires as short as possible and utilizing XLR balanced lines if available. Given the choice of long interconnects and short speaker leads or short interconnects and long speaker leads - choose long interconnects (preferably Balanced) and short speaker leads. With digital and video cables finding out the sending and termination requirements is very important due to the very short wavelengths relative to cable lengths involved.

[vegasdave]

James, do you feel that bi-wiring makes a difference?

[robb]

hello--

for what its worth in this

I have ultimately found over about a ten year+ period that Transparent Cable from the Super model on up, has always sounded best in my system with my Bryston amp and various speaker models, the last being Magnepan, and Thiel 2.4.  I have auditioned cables from Nordost, Audioquest, Kimber, Synergistic and have always settled on Transparent Cable as the most synergistic in my system.

rob 

[Waker]

I agree with Robb about Transparent cables as bringing out the best in my 4B-SST.  Yes, they are expensive, but good deals can be found on newer used pieces.  ICs, speaker and power cables need to be thought of as a component, and all need to be worthy of your source and all the way to your speakers.  I did not compare different brands, rather, I listened to the owner of a local high-end store, who offers what he has found to be the finest gear and the best values, along with synergy and price point.  Bryston, REL, Magnepan and Transparent go well together, with the cables (new) actually being the most expensive part of the package.           

[vegasdave]

The cable shouldn't be the most expensive! Cable prices are ridiculous, imo!

[klao]

This is another interesting read by Carl of JL Audio regarding "exotic wires".  Enjoy

http://theprofessionalanswer.com/?p=13

[_andy_]

From my 9bsst i use speaker cable made from Canare 4s11...it is 2 twisted pairs of 14gauge into each banana for an 11gauge effective. I have very long speaker cable runs & there is no way to position the power amp amongst the 5 speakers to shorten the cables & lengthen my balanced interconnects.

[corndog71]

I would recommend Kimber 4TC.  That and 8TC have been my main choice for years.  The 8TC is a little warmer sounding due to higher capacitance but I know a tweak that helps open it up a bit more.

I would stay away from Kimber's 4/8PR cables.  They never sounded as clear and dynamic as the TC and VS series cables did.  If you don't want to spend the money on the TC series than the VS series is still a great sounding cable.

[werd]

I was wandering James if u can tell us what internal speaker wire they use in the PMC speaker line (just curious).  When looking for speaker cable i  start lookin first at what the internal speaker wire is being used in the speakers.  If it accessible on the market its probably a good place to start. If using (for eg.) a Bryston /PMC setup it might be good idea to keep the same brand of internal wire right out of your amp to the speakers. It may not be what u end up with, but its a good guide for a starting point.

[James Tanner]

I was wandering James if u can tell us what internal speaker wire they use in the PMC speaker line (just curious).  When looking for speaker cable i  start lookin first at what the internal speaker wire is being used in the speakers.  If it accessible on the market its probably a good place to start. If using (for eg.) a Bryston /PMC setup it might be good idea to keep the same brand of internal wire right out of your amp to the speakers. It may not be what u end up with, but its a good guide for a starting point.

Hi Werd,

That's a good question and I do not know.  I assume Ian will - Ian your up!

james