[mresseguie]

Okay. That's got to be an odd subject line, but I'm a bit sleep deprived after the last two days, so bear with me.

1.) When you walk into a demo room where all the components are tubed - tube preamp, tube amp(s), tube CD player - and they're hooked up to okay speakers (but not great speakers), how do you judge whether the tube components are good, bad, or outstanding?

2.) Does the fact that the speakers are not especially exciting sway you toward having a negative opinion about the tube gear?

The reason why I ask this is I just attended a pretty decently sized audio show in Taipei, Taiwan where several vendors had set up in unexciting rooms with unexciting speakers used to demonstrate their tube (and/or solid state) components. I personally form a negative opinion when I walk into a room with supposedly fantastic components that are fronted by a pair of so-so speakers. However, if a similar room sports a pair of really nice sounding speakers, I tend to have a better impression of the gear.

Why do so many vendors pair uninteresting speakers with their gear at shows?

Thank for any thoughts or ideas on this.

Michael

[FullRangeMan]

You should judge with relativity, such a test can be valid if the listener knows the sound of the (all)equipments.
Why do so many vendors pair uninteresting speakers with their gear at shows?
Seems they choose a neutral sound speakers or choose a easy load impedance speaker to the amp.

[JLM]

Maybe it's a cultural or in-fad thing for Taiwan.  Obviously less bass would introduce less room related issues and someone does need to sell such product, but I think I know what you're saying and it ain't that.  I've listened to several in-home systems that go this same under achieving speaker route (for instance custom tube amps feeding $100 DIY speakers) and just don't get it either.  I'm a solid state guy, so maybe its a "tube thing"? 
 
I rarely attend shows.  I find most setups unimpressive and am constantly amazed how little preparation and forethought seemingly go into these presentations (although it seems that overall its gotten better).  My guess is the average vendor loses more sales than they gain by displaying.  They all have a boat load of excuses, but at the end of the day their $$$$$ system damn well better perform well under their expert attention, period.  I try to keep room and electrical conditions in mind, however after 5 seconds in 90% of the rooms I'm ready to dismiss them as nothing special.  This has nothing to do with system cost.  For instance after stepping into hundreds of rooms with $$$$$ worth of gear each I really liked the tiny $600 Napa amp/speaker system in a largish untreated room at Axpona last April (it simply did much right and nothing wrong within it's capabilities).

I'm a "speaker guy" of sorts and believe that "under achieving" rooms/speakers only under serve the system and are, intentional or not, possibly hiding flaws.  Now by "under achieving" I don't mean lacking bass or ultimate output but just don't provide a satisfactory levels of detail, flat frequency response, tonality, dynamics, image specificity, etc.  You cannot make an evaluation of source/amplification with crummy rooms/speakers, period.  Regardless if tube or solid state the only impression you can form from crummy speakers is "OK" at best. 
 
IME the biggest limitation most audiophiles have is their room (they over gear for the given space that is too small, odd shaped, not insulated/treated, or "domestically challenged").  In those cases I recommend a small system for casual listening and focus instead on a good headphone based system.

[tube-vds]

some years ago i heard a top-highend verdier turntable, pre and set (about $ 100,000) connected to some relative cheap rogers monitors - and it still sounded fantastic.

of all components the pre amp is the most unterrated and the speakers are the most overrated.

[mresseguie]

Thanks, guys, for your responses.

I spoke with the business manager of one company after the show and expressed my surprise that the company would choose to use 'those' speakers for their demo room. I gave him a short list of what were, in my opinion, the best sounding speakers at that show. He thanked me and said he would look into them for the future. Was I brushed off, or was he sincere? Eh, dunno.

Tube-vds,

I keep reading about the importance of a really good preamp, but I have yet to try out different models in my system. I hope to try a few tube pres this year.

Michael

[jarcher]

Hmm- haven't noticed that trend as much at US shows. But in the end, you are listening to a SYSTEM and the sum is more than the parts. So if the speakers are really sub-par (or a kid that you usually don't like), not sure how much improvement a great front end is going to help.

[mresseguie]

I thought I'd add a little something to this thread.

In addition to suggesting they use better speakers, I also asked to audition one of their integrated amps at my home so that I could write a review and post it here on AC. I wasn't sure how that would be treated. I'm a foreigner; I'm not a professional reviewer, and I haven't even said I want to buy their products. Well, their best integrated amp and their tubed CD player (a bonus!) were delivered to me today for an audition. Woot!

Spoiler alert: Wow! They sound great in my home - much better than at the show and much better than in their showroom.

Expect a review after Chinese New Year. It's almost upon us.

[rollo]

I thought I'd add a little something to this thread.

In addition to suggesting they use better speakers, I also asked to audition one of their integrated amps at my home so that I could write a review and post it here on AC. I wasn't sure how that would be treated. I'm a foreigner; I'm not a professional reviewer, and I haven't even said I want to buy their products. Well, their best integrated amp and their tubed CD player (a bonus!) were delivered to me today for an audition. Woot!

Spoiler alert: Wow! They sound great in my home - much better than at the show and much better than in their showroom.

Expect a review after Chinese New Year. It's almost upon us.

   That is the ticket home demo.

charles

[mlundy57]

Looking forward to hearing what you think.

Mike

[mresseguie]

Thanks, guys.

I've been giving the amp a real workout. I've paired the following as sources: tube Cd player, IDA-8 preamp/DAC, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, iPad Air, and iPhone6 Plus with interesting and somewhat surprising results.

I may have to return the equipment tomorrow, but I'm hoping for an extension - fingers crossed. [Edit: I've been given a one-day extension of which I plan to make good use.]

[cheech]

What did you review; and anything to offer on it?

[mresseguie]

Hello, Cheech.

Thanks for asking. I auditioned the Arriba A8025 integrated tube amp and the Arriba P-1008 tube CD player. I am writing a review, but Lunar new year activities have been getting in my way. There's going to be a big alcohol infused dinner today that has the potential to negatively affect me tomorrow. The integrated amp uses EL34 x 4 and 6922EH (6DJ8) x 4 tubes; the CD player uses 12AU7 x 2 tubes. I really enjoyed both in my system, and I came up with all manner of excuses to delay returning them. Now I spend a bunch of time reading up on tube preamps and amps.

The Arriba brand is not currently marketed in the U.S., but it may be in the near future.

Michael