Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?

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2gumby2

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I sold my Grado Gold cartridge about 5 years ago and I've decided to get a new modified one. I've always liked the sound of the Grados. I've narrowed my decision down to either the Longhorn Grado Gold offered by Audio by Van Alstine or the KAB modified Grado Gold from KABUSA. Seeking opinions from ACers here. I'll be using it on a KAB modified Technics SL-1200Mk2. KAB modded it with Cardas tonearm wire, RCA jacks, and strobe disabler. The KAB web site states the following for their Grado:
KAB Gold1 has all the features of the Gold1 above and sports a Paratrace Line contact Diamond.The dimensions are 0.2 x 0.66 x 1.0 mil. This improves tracking ability, definition and harmonic overtone detail in addition to extended diamond life and reduced record wear. Warranted by KAB

TheChairGuy

Re: Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?
« Reply #1 on: 16 Nov 2012, 03:28 pm »
Hey gumby...good to hear from you.

I didn't realize that KAB offered a para trace stylus for the Grados...good stuff.

My fave among the many I have or tested is the Grado Gold1 with the van Alstine outrigger and internal damping mods (the type sold by van Alstine today) and a nude, shibata stylus from older series Grado G1+.  The combination of better tracking and critically dampes internals makes for a remarkable cartridge.

If your not handy, as the van Alstine Longhorn mods are not hard to do (clearly evidenced by the fact that I dis them), then by all means by the Longhorn from van Alstine (these are crafted, incidentally, by our own Wayner here at AC).

If you have the cash, you can then by the paratrace stylus for what seems to be $130 additional from KAB.  The two together would make sweet music among the best of all cartridges for ANY price in my experience.

Trover

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Re: Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?
« Reply #2 on: 27 Jun 2014, 03:05 pm »
An old thread but feel the topic may have ongoing relavence since after market stuff for Shures and Grados seems to be popular. Among the many mods or after market "upgrades" to cartridges there are lots of options for many makes. As far as Grado there's the long lived "longhorn mod" as a DIY or by van alstine. That mod involves a balancing bar and some added damping to the inside. The stylus remains the same. Then there's retips using exotic stylus profiles by various companies- you send the cartridge to them and they retip it with a better diamond. And then there's stylus upgrades 8MZ and MCZ made by Grado that fit the prestige series and available from KAB. The cartridge Man Grado is a retipped Grado. Alternatively you could have a retip done and save a lot of money. I have not done it but I have read in reviews (both professional and user) that in going to an exotic retip the Grado cartridge becomes much more set up fussy and your overall surface noise will be greater on used records. Of exotic shapes in general I find this to be true- ellipticals are more forgiving of records that are slightly scratched or worn than line contacts, Gygers, Shabitas etc. but those exotic shapes offer better detail and soundstaging, but are more set up sensitive, and even then they still represent a step down as far as dealing with surface imperfections. The only current production stock Grado to offer something other than elliptical is their top of the line wood body at 3500 dollars. Of course you could try both- stylus upgrades and the long horn mod. I feel Grado should offer a nude elliptical or a gyger stylus in the Prestige line- I believe it would sell tons. There is a market for this which they are not capitalizing.
I have used the van alstine longhorn gold and comment on it elsewhere in another thread, in general I thought the longhorn mod improves in some areas but gives up some of the mid range warmth of a stock Grado- the cartridge becomes more "neutral" just as van alstine says. I have also used a gold with 8MZ stylus and feel that gives some improvement while maintaining the Grado midrange warmth but it isnt huge since the current production 8MZ stylus is still a bonded stylus, just like the stock one (but the old 8MZ was nude). I might try a retipped Grado soon.

Minn Mark

Re: Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?
« Reply #3 on: 27 Jun 2014, 03:47 pm »
If you want a Longhorn, better hurry,

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=126853.0

Cheers

Mark

avahifi

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Re: Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?
« Reply #4 on: 27 Jun 2014, 03:54 pm »
I still have one each Grado Longhorn Gold and Grado Longhorn Green, along with long term service parts available (stylus assemblies, etc).

Frank Van Alstine

neobop

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Re: Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?
« Reply #5 on: 28 Jun 2014, 09:11 am »
An old thread but feel the topic may have ongoing relavence since after market stuff for Shures and Grados seems to be popular. Among the many mods or after market "upgrades" to cartridges there are lots of options for many makes. As far as Grado there's the long lived "longhorn mod" as a DIY or by van alstine. That mod involves a balancing bar and some added damping to the inside. The stylus remains the same. Then there's retips using exotic stylus profiles by various companies- you send the cartridge to them and they retip it with a better diamond. And then there's stylus upgrades 8MZ and MCZ made by Grado that fit the prestige series and available from KAB. The cartridge Man Grado is a retipped Grado. Alternatively you could have a retip done and save a lot of money. I have not done it but I have read in reviews (both professional and user) that in going to an exotic retip the Grado cartridge becomes much more set up fussy and your overall surface noise will be greater on used records. Of exotic shapes in general I find this to be true- ellipticals are more forgiving of records that are slightly scratched or worn than line contacts, Gygers, Shabitas etc. but those exotic shapes offer better detail and soundstaging, but are more set up sensitive, and even then they still represent a step down as far as dealing with surface imperfections. The only current production stock Grado to offer something other than elliptical is their top of the line wood body at 3500 dollars. Of course you could try both- stylus upgrades and the long horn mod. I feel Grado should offer a nude elliptical or a gyger stylus in the Prestige line- I believe it would sell tons. There is a market for this which they are not capitalizing.
I have used the van alstine longhorn gold and comment on it elsewhere in another thread, in general I thought the longhorn mod improves in some areas but gives up some of the mid range warmth of a stock Grado- the cartridge becomes more "neutral" just as van alstine says. I have also used a gold with 8MZ stylus and feel that gives some improvement while maintaining the Grado midrange warmth but it isnt huge since the current production 8MZ stylus is still a bonded stylus, just like the stock one (but the old 8MZ was nude). I might try a retipped Grado soon.

Hi Trover,
The Sonata model in either hi or low output has a nude elliptical stylus, wood body, and non user replaceable stylus.  From everything I've read it's a big step up in performance from the Prestige line.  Unfortunately it's $600. 
It seems like the price of diamonds is up and/or the cutting and mounting costs are higher.  This isn't always reflected in the price of NOS styli which is based on rarity and desirability.  Re-tipping costs are a bit higher than a Prestige stylus replacement.  Soundsmith charges $150 for a nude elliptical on a tapered aluminum cantilever and of course more for a ruby cantilever and extended contact tip.  There's a new guy in Washington state, Andy Kim might be able to save you some money on a re-tip.  I don't know what Grado charges for a Sonata factory re-tip, but it might be more.

Many people have different results with noisy records and tip profiles.  I think it depends on the depth of the groove damage in relation to a particular stylus.  Extended contact tips will tend to trace parts that haven't been played before, along with the parts with damage.  This possibly reduces noise content, but it really depends on the record. 

John TheChairGuy loved his modded Grado Gold/nude shibata.  The Grado ellipsoid is said to be like a shibata.  He tried a Master (I think), but preferred his Gold. 
http://www.gradolabs.com/cartridges/reference-cartridges

From what you say some of the Grado stylus replacements aren't the same as the originals.  I have no idea what all those models relate to and anyone looking for a replacement stylus should call KAB for info.  Kevin is a great guy and will give you the straight scoop. 
http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/phoncart.htm

neo

 

Trover

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Re: Longhorn Grado Gold from AVA or KAB modified Grado Gold?
« Reply #6 on: 30 Jul 2014, 02:14 pm »
Yea I agree I've dealt with KAB and he is very personable, gives good deals and is always on the level. He said he probably wont be offering the paratrace Grado's anymore. He uses and tested the paratrace and told me it'll track up to the 3rd level on his test record with some break up on the 4th level and is generally pleased with its performance and sound. Grado themselves should offer something better than bonded eliptical on the Pretige type body. They used to (though I never owned one). Not everyone wants a wood body. I might try a retip, but won't expect to hear it anytime soon. I've heard it takes anywhere from 3 to 6 months depending on who you send it to.
Grados will never be the ultimate in tracking or transparency, but they do have a great musicality about them. They can have a spacious stage too- its just more diffuse than some.