[Rod_S]

Whats really strange about all this is that since ATMOS has come to the attention of the market we have had a huge increase in SP-3 sales -I have no idea why

james

Perhaps it's just people wanting a good solid intern solution until manufactures work out how they are going to truly implement Atmos. Receivers will always sell more units however I feel this time the receivers will be at a disadvantge by not being able to offer anywhere near the number of channels consumer Atmos is capable of. That will only be able to be pulled off by SSP's.

[mv038856]

Sorry, for digging up this old thread...

In a report about an Emotiva pre/pro at www.hometheaterhifi.com (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles-and-editorials/technical-articles-and-editorials/avr-audio-video-receiver-build-quality-part-iv-the-emotiva-xmc-1-ssp-a-paradigm-of-a-pre-pro-implementation/page-3-dsp-audio-board.html) I found a very interesting claim:

"The new DAE 88A board, which supports Dolby ATMOS, has just been introduced by Momentum Data Systems."

Since the SP-3 uses a Digital Audio Engine (DAE) board from Momentum Data Systems (MDS), there could be a chance for an upgrade here... at least in the past, MDS provided some form of backward compatibility, which enabled Bryston to Upgrade the SP-1 to a SP-1.7 to a SP-2...

James, do you already have a test board of the DAE 88A in your lab to check out its capabilities and the options to upgrade the SP-3? 

Thanks!

Markus

[James Tanner]

Sorry, for digging up this old thread...

In a report about an Emotiva pre/pro at www.hometheaterhifi.com (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles-and-editorials/technical-articles-and-editorials/avr-audio-video-receiver-build-quality-part-iv-the-emotiva-xmc-1-ssp-a-paradigm-of-a-pre-pro-implementation/page-3-dsp-audio-board.html) I found a very interesting claim:

"The new DAE 88A board, which supports Dolby ATMOS, has just been introduced by Momentum Data Systems."

Since the SP-3 uses a Digital Audio Engine (DAE) board from Momentum Data Systems (MDS), there could be a chance for an upgrade here... at least in the past, MDS provided some form of backward compatibility, which enabled Bryston to Upgrade the SP-1 to a SP-1.7 to a SP-2...

James, do you already have a test board of the DAE 88A in your lab to check out its capabilities and the options to upgrade the SP-3? 

Thanks!

Markus

Hi Markus

No test board yet and with the extra channels need it would have to be a different chassis than the SP3.

james

[mv038856]

I was wondering whether there in fact could be an upgrade for the SP-3... 

It could look like this:
- new processor board for the SP-3MKII that
        a) does decode Dolby ATMOS and Auro 3D
        b) serves the 9.1 (i.e. 10) channels that the SP-3 currently can serve on the analog side via its D/A converters
        c) offers an additional I2S digital output for the additional channels
- new 1U "SP-3PLUS" companion unit for the additional (10?) channels. It contains the D/A converters and the analog volume control for the additional channels. The digital connection from the main unit to the companion unit would be proprietary. The new 1U unit would only have the proprietary digital input, a control input (for volume control through SP-3) and the analog XLR and RCA outputs.

The architecture should be flexible, so that the user can decide how to use the total of e.g. 20 channels. As an example the config could be 9.4.4 or whatever the user wants... 

Offering this kind of companion unit would give everybody the option to go for a classic 7.1 or 9.1 with the classic SP-3 or SP3MKII or add the SP-3PLUS companion unit now or later...

I know that James started this thread to frighten us, but it won't work on hardcore hometheater afficionados...

That being said, I don't know if I would go for more channels myself now. I have learned that the best sound codecs only sound best if played through first class electronics when I changed from a consumer brand level Onkyo Pre/pro to my Bryston SP-3. The gain in sound quality was astonishing! I therefore cannot possibly go back to a consumer Onkyo, Denon or Marantz pre/pro just to get ATMOS as I expect to loose on general sound quality what I just gained by upgrading to the SP-3. 

Cheers!

Markus

Hi James,

sorry for quoting myself, but I do think there are options to offer an ATMOS/Auro 3D/DTS:X capable solution incorporating the  SP-3... 

Your engineering department might be even more creative than me...

The question is, (when) does Bryston want to offer an ATMOS/Auro 3D/DTS:X capable pre/pro and what would be an economically feasible way to do it... upgrade the SP-3 (as indicated above or in a different way) and please those current SP-3 owners who want to upgrade - or offer a new SP-4 unit that offers that particular featureset.

Time will tell! The DAE 88A seems to be quite new, not even the MDS website does list it yet... maybe it's prudent to let other high end companies do the first step (and debug the SDK) ... after all, only time will tell if there was a first or a last mover advantage. 

Cheers!

Markus

 

[drummermitchell]

As Atmos and DTS-X has my interest.
My Arcam Av-8 has been FLAWLESS  for years  and back then at 5000 ,let alone 10,000
Unless my Av-8 craps out,which I'll add has been on 24/7 for...10 yrs and not a glitch,
I have been interested in the SP-3...but since new formats are on the horizon and my AV-8 is SUPERB thus far,
I think I'll hang on to her until the end.
I find it interesting that since 10 yrs have past and the AV-8 is basically a DIGITAL Processor and not one glitch,
yet I have newer digital products and I have to send them back for a mother board within a yr or after 3-5 days unplug them and replug to reset set whatever(FCK ups).
Doesn't make sense to me at all and yes I's bitchin.
After 10 yrs shouldn't digital be as at least reliable as the AV-8................................................
Still Vennnting .
As Huey Lewis sings......Going back  In Time

[Rod_S]

I've had similar luck as you with my SSP, a Lexicon MC-12B which I purchased in January 2004 but I do put it in standby when not in use and completely shutdown when I'm away for any length of time like vacation, etc.. All I have had to do to it over the years was replace the power switch. So I agree there is, or should be no reason digital components can't be expected to last as long as analog ones when built properly.

[mv038856]

It's been a year since this ATMOS topic has been last updated...

Any news on ATMOS, DTS:X and Auro 3D in a Bryston product?

Momentum Data Systems (MDS) does offer 3D audio capable processor boards now. Unfortunately, they appear not to be pin compatible with the "classic" DAE boards as used in the SP-3. So chances for an upgrade path for SP-3 users are smaller than ever... 

Is there any research on how successful ATMOS has been in the market so far? So, is there a demand big enough for a Bryston?

Is any high end manufacturer besides Trinnov or Datasat offering ATMOS right now, I mean someone in Brystons performance class?

Or would a machine like the Trinnov, which basically is a PC, with a Bryston analog audio component (and the proprietary class A output stage) be a solution? Would Bryston co-operate on such a project, just as Bryston did with the speakers, the isolation transformers and the turntable... and the DAE boards in he past? Since the Trinnov solution is to a great extend software based, future codec related updates might be easier to implement...

My biggest fear regarding ATMOS is that when buying a non-Bryston pre/pro I might win on supported 3D audio codecs, but loose on analog audio performance... not a tradeoff I am willing to make...

Just a few thoughts on the topic... 


Markus

[Rod_S]

Is any high end manufacturer besides Trinnov or Datasat offering ATMOS right now, I mean someone in Brystons performance class?

The Datasat LS10 (little brother to the RS20i) would be roughly in the price class as the Bryston. It runs a bit more when the Dirac and ATMOS options are installed but still cheaper than the Trinnov and RS20i. I have no idea how it compares sound wise to the Bryston though.

[mv038856]

Just as an update...

I just noticed that Emotiva will be offering an upgrade on their $2,499 XMC-1 pre/pro to Dolby ATMOS and DTS-X decoding - and they are using the DAE (Digital Audio Engine) from Momentum Datasystems (MDS), just as Bryston does in the SP-3... the upgrade will be at $499.

Another indication that an upgrade is possible on the MDS DAE platform in general...

What do you think, James? Will your engineering look into an upgrade on the SP-3?

Cheers!

Markus

[Rod_S]

How many channels does the Emotiva support? I'm thinking the SP3 simply doesn't have enough if one wants to use more than one sub. What does the SP3 have, 7.1 plus 2 (or 4 aux) outputs? 2 height channels is hardly worth the effort for Bryston to do an upgrade, you would need at least 4 so if there are 4 aux outputs and you only want one sub doing both LFE and bass management then perhaps the SP3 platform would work in that scenario.

I suppose you could forgo 7.1 and do 5.1 which would give you 2 more height channels but from what I've been reading about the immersive formats is that a 7.1 bed channel layout is the way to go (over 5.1) and using the extra 2 channels for wide's rather than rears can give equal if not a more immersive effect. Ideally you would want a 9.1 bed channel layout to get both rears and wides.

[mv038856]

After the upgrade, the Emotiva maxes at 7.2.4 - they are redirecting the analog zone 2 output (zone 2 will be available only via digital SP/DIF after the upgrade).

The question is how flexible the analog XLR and RCA outputs in the Bryston SP-3 can be configured... maybe doing the volume on the height channels digitally (instead of the resistance ladder) might enable an upgrade... or use the XLR for the main channels and a couple of the RCAs for the additional height channels...

I just want to encourage Bryston to (re-)consider the options... 

Cheers!

Markus

[James Tanner]

Just as an update...

I just noticed that Emotiva will be offering an upgrade on their $2,499 XMC-1 pre/pro to Dolby ATMOS and DTS-X decoding - and they are using the DAE (Digital Audio Engine) from Momentum Datasystems (MDS), just as Bryston does in the SP-3... the upgrade will be at $499.

Another indication that an upgrade is possible on the MDS DAE platform in general...

What do you think, James? Will your engineering look into an upgrade on the SP-3?

Cheers!

Markus

Hi Markus

Yes we are aware of this DAE-89 board but it is different from the one we are using and is not retro-fit-able to the SP-3.  It would be a different product and would require 16 analog output channels.

james