IDA-8 ($995) features and spec

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 188633 times.

kevb

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #200 on: 7 Oct 2015, 01:00 am »
I have a question about the IDA-8:

I have had this unit for several months now and really enjoying it.  It replaced a NuForce DDA-100 and to my ears is better in every respect (and the DDA-100 was very good to begin with).

My question is as follows:

Does the analog input into the IDA-8 remain in the analog domain right through to the speaker outputs ?  Any internal A/D conversions going on ??

The reason I ask is that I am considering getting a SACD player to play my modest but growing collection of Stereo Hybrid SACDs and just want to be sure that the IDA-8 keeps that pristine analog signal intact through to the output and does not do any internal conversions.

Thanks in advance for any definitive answers that can be provided about my question.

If you could rip the SACD's to a computer, you could use the computer as the source via USB to keep everything in the digital domain until it reaches the IDA-8. That is how I will be using mine. I have downloaded a few DSD samples from 2L, and I can't wait to hear how they sound when I get the IDA-8.  I would wager to guess that going digital direct to the internal DAC in the IDA-8 would trump a modest SACD player through the analog inputs. 


Just a thought.
« Last Edit: 1 Nov 2015, 04:37 pm by kevb »

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1397
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #201 on: 7 Oct 2015, 01:37 am »
SACDs were recorded using DSD to start with so using the Analog outputs on the player already involves a conversion. I don't know why the Analog inputs would involve digital processing unless Jason says they do.  I would think that your best sound may come from using the digital output from the player to the IDA-8 and letting it upsample, but try it both ways and see what you think. In the system I am using mine in I have an Oppo hooked up using the 8's internal DAC and a CD Player using NOS Burr Brown chips into the Analog inputs.  They certainly don't sound the same leading me to believe that the Analog inputs are bypassing the internal DAC.  If they were both being processed they should sound basically the same.

gregfisk

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 1349
  • Us alone in the universe? sure is a waste of SPACE
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #202 on: 7 Oct 2015, 02:30 am »
SACDs were recorded using DSD to start with so using the Analog outputs on the player already involves a conversion. I don't know why the Analog inputs would involve digital processing unless Jason says they do.  I would think that your best sound may come from using the digital output from the player to the IDA-8 and letting it upsample, but try it both ways and see what you think. In the system I am using mine in I have an Oppo hooked up using the 8's internal DAC and a CD Player using NOS Burr Brown chips into the Analog inputs.  They certainly don't sound the same leading me to believe that the Analog inputs are bypassing the internal DAC.  If they were both being processed they should sound basically the same.

JackD,

Have you compared the Oppo's dac with the dac in the ida-8? If so, how would you describe the differences.

I am still very interested in what people have owned that they can compare to the ida-8 as I'm still not getting a good picture of what it sounds like compared to anything else at this point. Being used to having tubes in the chain I'm very curious as to how the ida-8 compares since I recall Jason saying it was on the warmish side in presentation.

Any input from users would be greatly appreciated.

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1397
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #203 on: 7 Oct 2015, 02:41 am »
Greg

It is warmer than the Oppo, but not as warm as the Burr Brown in the Classe' CD from 2000.  I don't know if you have ever heard one, but the Classe's sound is very similar to the tube output Norh CD-1.  The closest thing I own or have heard that compares to the 8's DAC is the Peachtree DAC-it. The problem with what you are asking with an Integrated is that you can't separate which part of the chain is the main contributor to the sound profile.  I own the "8" and the DAC-10 but haven't heard the "16" or the ST-10.  I have a friend that has owned the 8 and the 16 and he feels the front of the 16 is better but the amp in the 8 is better.  My dealer hears the same between the integrateds and thinks the combo of the two 10's beats them both handily which is in line with what the reviewer from TAS heard.  I intended to have an ST-10 in house by now, but a new speaker purchase has put that on hold.

bh46118

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 71
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #204 on: 7 Oct 2015, 05:12 am »
If that is in fact the case, then the $1600 extra for the 16 would seem to be a bit of a problem. I have the IDA-16 and am very pleased with the sound, in what way is the amp of the 8 better sounding ?


Greg
I have a friend that has owned the 8 and the 16 and he feels the front of the 16 is better but the amp in the 8 is better.  My dealer hears the same between the integrateds

mresseguie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4697
  • SW1X DAC+ D Sachs 300b + Daedalus Apollos = Heaven
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #205 on: 7 Oct 2015, 09:49 am »
If that is in fact the case, then the $1600 extra for the 16 would seem to be a bit of a problem. I have the IDA-16 and am very pleased with the sound, in what way is the amp of the 8 better sounding ?

I'm going to look for it to be certain, but I recall Jason's making a statement (in this thread or another) in which he compared the IDA-8, IDA-16, and ????. [I believe the unknown other was the ST-10.] If I do find it, I'll repost it below.

Edit: Okay, I went back through Jason's posts and found this post:

Jason posted,
"NuPrime Audio / Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« on: 13 Jun 2015, 03:44 am »
The following brief guide might help you decide between ST-10, IDA-8 and IDA-16
Sound characteristic - ST-10 has the perfect balanced for people who is looking for some texture, warmth and yet detail and resolution in an amp. It also has gripping control and bass. ST-10 is the best you can get before moving upward to Reference 20.
IDA-16 is very well balanced and detailed. For entry level high-end audio, IDA-16 is a good place to start and you won't easily run out of power.  It has everything you need, including a DAC with enough resolution and inputs that will not need any upgrade for  the foreseeable future.
IDA-8 sound characteristic is between ST-10 and IDA-16. If you have high efficiency speaker, or bookshelf speaker in a small listening room, this is the best integrated amp on the market. I don't think anything below $2K would be able to compete with IDA-8. At $995 that also include bluetooth aptX and DAC, it is as future proof as you can get.
If you are looking for a reason to upgrade your old mini component or outdated entry level audiophile system, IDA-8 gives you everything you need in one box.
"


Michael

mresseguie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4697
  • SW1X DAC+ D Sachs 300b + Daedalus Apollos = Heaven
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #206 on: 7 Oct 2015, 10:37 am »
Kevb,

We're thinking along the same lines.  :thumb:

I've had the IDA-8 for just two weeks, yet I'm already thinking/wondering about how an IDA-16 or DAC-10H might fit into my developing system. The IDA-8 was purchased as a 'second  home' system that was easy on my wallet and is very mobile yet offers good sound. Well, I got a home run with this plus my LS/5-R monitors. I had worried about the low sensitivity, but it just is not a problem with this amp and my smallish room.

I've got a big amp, a tube preamp and an older DAC sitting in boxes at home, and I can't help but wonder if the IDA-16 would make a great replacement or if adding the DAC-10H (to replace my aging DAC and the tube preamp) would be enough. In a perfect world, I'd con....uh...er...persuade John to send me both units so that I might be able to make proper comparisons. Any comparisons are months off as I am on the left side of the Pacific until March anyway.

I suspect you'll like the IDA-8, but that it will make you wonder what its big brothers/sisters are capable of.

Enjoy your journey!

Michael

I thought I'd repost my own post from a couple days ago given the information that I posted above. Now I see the IDA-16 is not in my future. I do want to get the DAC-10H into my main system (once I'm back in my home in Oregon). Then, my next step would be to decide if that is enough, or if I want to replace my big amp with the ST-10 or the Ref 20 amp. Fortunately, that decision is many months in the future.

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1397
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #207 on: 7 Oct 2015, 12:51 pm »
By better they meant fuller. They both thought the amp section in the 16 was on the "lean" side in the lower octaves. Again I haven't heard the 16 just their opinion.  As to the 10 combo you have the advantage of two separate power supplies which is an advantage to start with. Not to mention future flexibility and they are pretty much the same size.

gregfisk

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 1349
  • Us alone in the universe? sure is a waste of SPACE
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #208 on: 7 Oct 2015, 03:25 pm »
JackD,

Have you compared the Oppo's dac with the dac in the ida-8? If so, how would you describe the differences.

I am still very interested in what people have owned that they can compare to the ida-8 as I'm still not getting a good picture of what it sounds like compared to anything else at this point. Being used to having tubes in the chain I'm very curious as to how the ida-8 compares since I recall Jason saying it was on the warmish side in presentation.

Any input from users would be greatly appreciated.

JackD, thank you for this. My friend is bringing over his Oppo 105 pretty soon so this will finally give some idea of what this integrated sounds like. I appreciate that being an all in one solution you can't separate what is making what contribution but what comes out at the end is what counts knowing you can't change things up.

kevb

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #209 on: 8 Oct 2015, 02:59 am »
I thought I'd repost my own post from a couple days ago given the information that I posted above. Now I see the IDA-16 is not in my future. I do want to get the DAC-10H into my main system (once I'm back in my home in Oregon). Then, my next step would be to decide if that is enough, or if I want to replace my big amp with the ST-10 or the Ref 20 amp. Fortunately, that decision is many months in the future.

That will be a tough decision for me as well.  With the recent tanking of the CDN dollar, I will have to hear it in my own system before I commit big bux.  Especially since I am also looking at going another route with another comparably priced DAC/pre from another company (NFB-27H from Audio GD) and using that with one of my current power amps.  I do love the minimalist styling of the NuPrime gear though - small and unobtrusive, and the biggest thing for me was simplifying so I could get rid of a whole bunch of cables too.

Going to be a tough decision....hmmm.....   :scratch:

gregfisk

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 1349
  • Us alone in the universe? sure is a waste of SPACE
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #210 on: 8 Oct 2015, 03:46 am »
JackD,

It's probably clear, but I meant to quote you not my response.

Thanks again for your input...

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #211 on: 8 Oct 2015, 04:28 pm »
"Better" is subjective.  I would say that "Better" should be reserved for the spec.  IDA-16 has more power than IDA-8, etc.
Sound wise:
IDA-8 customers typically have entry level high-end speakers from $1K to $3K. So we designed the amp to be slightly warmer with more texture. Sure, even a $5K or $10K speakers can sound really good if you like the sonic characteristic of IDA-8. But if you play very loud in a big room, IDA-8 will not have the power or dynamic for hard to driver speakers.
We designed IDA-16 to be clean, neutral with lots of details. This suits people with high-end speakers where they want to "tune" the overall sound.
ST-10 and DAC-10H combines the best of IDA-8 and IDA-16 and take it to the next level.
Why don't we just make IDA-16 as ST-10+DAC-10H ? If we can do it within the cost, we will.  We don't play the pricing game or sell some bull shit thing.  It will work if we sell a $3500 IDA-20 that combines ST-10 and DAC-10H.  But we are concern that the market will be too small for such a high-end integrated.  At the higher price range, people want to go with components. 

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1397
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #212 on: 8 Oct 2015, 05:33 pm »
Jason

I amended by statement from "better" to "fuller" and again that was what I was told.  Whether or not an IDA-20 would work would depend on how the current projections for the Devialet and others look now that the "new" has worn off.  Maybe just "re-voice" the amp module in the 16.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #213 on: 12 Oct 2015, 12:14 am »
Yes, we designed IDA-8 to have more "texture"/fuller sound characteristic.  But audio is subjective, some people might not want it.

mresseguie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4697
  • SW1X DAC+ D Sachs 300b + Daedalus Apollos = Heaven
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #214 on: 12 Oct 2015, 01:21 am »
Jason,

I've got a couple questions and an observation or two.

You stated, "IDA-8 customers typically have entry level high-end speakers from $1K to $3K. So we designed the amp to be slightly warmer with more texture. Sure, even a $5K or $10K speakers can sound really good if you like the sonic characteristic of IDA-8. But if you play very loud in a big room, IDA-8 will not have the power or dynamic for hard to driver speakers.
We designed IDA-16 to be clean, neutral with lots of details. This suits people with high-end speakers where they want to "tune" the overall sound.
ST-10 and DAC-10H combines the best of IDA-8 and IDA-16 and take it to the next level.
" and "Yes, we designed IDA-8 to have more "texture"/fuller sound characteristic."

I'm not sure how to translate 'more texture/fuller sound' into what I'm hearing when I listen to music with my IDA-8 and speakers. Can you elucidate a bit?

I'm a bit atypical in that I'm using the IDA-8 to drive pretty high-end bookshelf speakers that aren't exactly high efficiency. They use the Scan Speak paper Illuminator 5" midwoofer and SS Ring Radiator tweeter (Frequency Response: 43Hz-30Khz +/- 3 db; Impedance: 8 Ohms nominal; Sensitivity: 83.5 db (1 Watt, 2.83 V @ 1 Meter). I had been concerned about the 83.5 dB sensitivity, but it just isn't an issue in my small space. The IDA-8/LS/5-R speakers are a great combination IMHO.

Your comments above have made me quite curious about how my experience would change if I had an IDA-16 (or ST-10/DAC-10H) instead. The sound I would hear would be different not only because of the more watts/ch, but also because the amps are tuned differently. Do you know if the store in Taipei (that sent me the IDA-8) is set up with a listening room? If so, do they have the different amps in that room available for someone like me to walk in and compare them?

Regards,

Michael

bh46118

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 71
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #215 on: 12 Oct 2015, 03:07 am »
The IDA-16 needs to be "re-voiced" ?


Jason

Maybe just "re-voice" the amp module in the 16.

rustydoglim

Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #216 on: 18 Oct 2015, 04:04 am »
IDA-16 doesn't need to be "re-voiced". If you like IDA-8, then you might find IDA-16 "too clean".
Technically, IDA-8 has more even harmonics.

bh46118

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 71
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #217 on: 1 Nov 2015, 06:10 am »
The longer I own my IDA-16, the more I like it.

IDA-16 doesn't need to be "re-voiced". If you like IDA-8, then you might find IDA-16 "too clean".
Technically, IDA-8 has more even harmonics.

OleFaithful

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #218 on: 9 Nov 2015, 02:48 pm »
"Better" is subjective.  I would say that "Better" should be reserved for the spec.  IDA-16 has more power than IDA-8, etc.
Sound wise:
IDA-8 customers typically have entry level high-end speakers from $1K to $3K. So we designed the amp to be slightly warmer with more texture. Sure, even a $5K or $10K speakers can sound really good if you like the sonic characteristic of IDA-8. But if you play very loud in a big room, IDA-8 will not have the power or dynamic for hard to driver speakers.
We designed IDA-16 to be clean, neutral with lots of details. This suits people with high-end speakers where they want to "tune" the overall sound.
ST-10 and DAC-10H combines the best of IDA-8 and IDA-16 and take it to the next level.
Why don't we just make IDA-16 as ST-10+DAC-10H ? If we can do it within the cost, we will.  We don't play the pricing game or sell some bull shit thing.  It will work if we sell a $3500 IDA-20 that combines ST-10 and DAC-10H.  But we are concern that the market will be too small for such a high-end integrated.  At the higher price range, people want to go with components.

Hi Rusty and you guys.
I've been looking into your products, and need an advice.

The situation:
small room - might change later
Playing hi res files JRMedia
preamp/HP amp/ DAC - Audiobyte Black Dragon - 2 balanced + 2 unbalanced outputs
phono stage + phono preamp
HP - Sennheiser HD700
Loudspeakers - DALI Mentor Menuet Special Edition (Limited number with upgraded components)

So I am left with the question of amplification:
I have been considering IDA-16, IDA-8 and ST-100.
To me, the ST-100 looks like what I need so I can connect both the record player and what comes from the Black Dragon into the amp without the need for a switch.
I am also hoping extra Power does good for the tiny loudspeakers.
I am trying to get i right in a tiny room, but also building a chain of components that can be moved into a larger room - and supplied with larger speakers when the day comes.

Or would you think it wiser to og With the IDA-8/16? (It certainly wouldn't be practical...)

Would be good to hear what you think.

JackD

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1397
Re: IDA-8 ($995) features and spec
« Reply #219 on: 9 Nov 2015, 06:52 pm »
The ST-10 has the best amp section and if you are happy with the Black Dragon that is all you need.