Jolida JD9 phono amp hybrid Magic...

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alx_d

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #20 on: 24 Apr 2010, 06:29 am »
Hi,

I had all the bright problems and no tube rolling or IC swapping would fix it. 
I made numerous changes to the grounding, transformer position and shielding as well as removing the PCB for the resistor/cap loading and output HI/LO option PCB.

Regards
Alx

alx_d

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #21 on: 24 Apr 2010, 06:35 am »
The AD843KN are not at all usable as a replacement for all 6 OPA's in the Jolida. You'll get a lot of nasty noise instead of "nasty subsonic level bass". I have tried them, too. You may use two of them for the output stage only, where they work quite well. They sound a bit less harsh than the original OP37. I also doubt that replacing the output coupling caps will make such a big difference, I have tried several caps and the result was not so overwhelming. The Jolida is sounding far too bright and I would be grateful if somebody had an idea who to reduce the treble a bit.

Dr. Ear,

What are you using for a front end and for amplification?  I can definatly hear a difference in my system when changing caps.  I use a 1.5uf instead of the 1uf and the bass is as tight as I have gotten with my system.

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #22 on: 24 Apr 2010, 07:24 am »
What could one expect from higher values, like 2,2 or 3,3 µF?

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #23 on: 24 Apr 2010, 07:56 am »
I use a Technics SL-1210Mk5G with either AT150ML, AT20SLa or AT33PTG cartridges. Amplifier is a Yamaha A-S2000. I have some good quality Panasonic 3,3 µF film caps in my box, which I will try today. It is not so much work changing these caps. I will post the result.

royphil345

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #24 on: 24 Apr 2010, 10:59 am »
I use a Technics SL-1210Mk5G with either AT150ML, AT20SLa or AT33PTG cartridges. Amplifier is a Yamaha A-S2000. I have some good quality Panasonic 3,3 µF film caps in my box, which I will try today. It is not so much work changing these caps. I will post the result.

If you don't like bright, maybe try a different cart. Those all lean towards bright. In exchange, you get some crazy detail a lower-priced tubed phono stage maybe isn't the best thing to compliment.

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #25 on: 24 Apr 2010, 11:19 am »
Yes, I know that AT's have a tendency to sound bright, but I like the sound of the 20Sla, there is something special with it. For me it is the best cart I´ve ever owned. BTW, the AT MM's son't sound so bright when connected with 100-200 pF.
I forgot to mention my Denon DL103R, which is not bright at all, but with the Jolida it is.

I have just replaced the 1µF output coupling caps with 3,3 µF Panasonic metallized polyester caps which I had in my spare parts box. After listening to several records I have the strong impression that the sound of the JD9 is more balanced now. Highs are the same but there is more weight and body in the lower register. I like what I hear and I will leave them in there except somebody has a good argument against it. I am asking myself why Jolida built in such a small value cap, should it act as a subsonic filter?

dangerbird

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #26 on: 24 Apr 2010, 11:29 am »
Yes, I know that AT's have a tendency to sound bright, but I like the sound of the 20Sla, there is something special with it. For me it is the best cart I´ve ever owned. BTW, the AT MM's son't sound so bright when connected with 100-200 pF.
I forgot to mention my Denon DL103R, which is not bright at all, but with the Jolida it is.

I have just replaced the 1µF output coupling caps with 3,3 µF Panasonic metallized polyester caps which I had in my spare parts box. After listening to several records I have the strong impression that the sound of the JD9 is more balanced now. Highs are the same but there is more weight and body in the lower register. I like what I hear and I will leave them in there except somebody has a good argument against it. I am asking myself why Jolida built in such a small value cap, should it act as a subsonic filter?

Man,, you don't mess around eh? Good on you,, I'm really thinking hard about picking one of these up and comparing it to my Super it.

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #27 on: 24 Apr 2010, 03:30 pm »
Dr. Ear,

What are you using for a front end and for amplification?  I can definatly hear a difference in my system when changing caps.  I use a 1.5uf instead of the 1uf and the bass is as tight as I have gotten with my system.

alx, this seems to be the definitive solution. The Jolida sounds much more balanced now with 3,3 µF than with the stock 1µF caps. Lower Mid and Bass levels are now comparable to a Pro-Ject Tube Box II SE.
Maybe Mundorf Supreme, Claricaps and Auricaps aren't the right approach because they were designed for tweeter crossovers with emphasis on perfect treble reproduction. The Panasonic film capacitor sounds very good to me.


royphil345

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #28 on: 24 Apr 2010, 11:26 pm »
alx, this seems to be the definitive solution. The Jolida sounds much more balanced now with 3,3 µF than with the stock 1µF caps. Lower Mid and Bass levels are now comparable to a Pro-Ject Tube Box II SE.
Maybe Mundorf Supreme, Claricaps and Auricaps aren't the right approach because they were designed for tweeter crossovers with emphasis on perfect treble reproduction. The Panasonic film capacitor sounds very good to me.

Hmmm interesting!... and not even expensive if larger film caps are all that's necessary. May I ask what tubes are you guys running that sound good with the larger capacitors? Sounds like something I should definitely try. Any chance of a sound sample?

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #29 on: 24 Apr 2010, 11:59 pm »
Tubes did not make such a huge difference, I have tried TAD, Mullard, JJ and Electro Harmonix. Latter were the most bright sounding tubes. High end caps? Just think of Nelson Pass amps, there are no special parts in there, but they sound great.

face

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #30 on: 25 Apr 2010, 12:04 am »
How many of Nelson's amps have caps in the signal path?  ;)

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #31 on: 27 Apr 2010, 06:49 pm »
Still no complaints about the 3,3µF output coupling capacitor? (Until now I could not hear any unwanted effects, just better bass).
Just made a comparison between the Jolida and the phono stage of my refurb'd Yamaha A-1 integrated. My wife, uncorrupted like always, said that the difference is very small (with a small advantage for the A-1, which sounds a tiny bit warmer and music is a little more fluent).

royphil345

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #32 on: 2 May 2010, 01:14 pm »
Still no complaints about the 3,3µF output coupling capacitor? (Until now I could not hear any unwanted effects, just better bass).
Just made a comparison between the Jolida and the phono stage of my refurb'd Yamaha A-1 integrated. My wife, uncorrupted like always, said that the difference is very small (with a small advantage for the A-1, which sounds a tiny bit warmer and music is a little more fluent).

I will have to give that a try eventually then. I just compared the Jolida to an inexpensive solid-state amp (Vincent PHO-111) and the Jolida sounded more accurate to me in every department, except for that it really does seem to lack just the tiniest bit of bass weight. If this mod cures that, I'll be in heaven! I wish I understood more about what changing the value of those caps does. My understanding of electronics just doesn't go that far. I've been soldering and fixing things a long time though, so there shouldn't be much risk. If I don't like it, I can go back to the original value, maybe use a more premium cap.

You guys should try the Sovtek LPS in there though. They have a better balance than anything else I've tried in the Jolida. The gain of these tubes seems to be just about right and the sense of correct timing I got with the original tubes remains. These are a little less "hard" sounding in the mids though and have better frequency extention and "air" at both ends.

Here's another rip using the Sovteks and an AT440MLa. That last rip I put up really sucked. Turntable setup was a bit off and I've since started using even more capacitance with the old Audio Technica PRO13E to give it a little more "zing". I don't think this rip sounds any brighter than a 440MLa would sound with any phono stage and it should do a better job of showing the nice tonal balance I'm getting with the Sovteks. Just a smidge of added bass weight and I would be SO happy with this phono stage. So, thanks for the tip on the caps! Hope it works for me too. I will report back with the results eventually, maybe even with some "before" and "after" rips. I still haven't ordered any caps yet...

http://www.4shared.com/file/IO6NwgGH/AT440MLa_and_Jolida.html

SteveFord

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #33 on: 2 May 2010, 02:14 pm »
Just putting in the Sovteks, making a better power cord and using the recommended switch settings worked fine on my system. 
After watching the mylar on the Maggies move around on a very bass heavy PJ Harvey album, I really don't think any additional bass would be a good idea.

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #34 on: 2 May 2010, 04:09 pm »
The 1µF Capacitor in the signal path is for DC blocking only. If the value is a little low it will also impair bass response. It is no big thing to solder in two 2,2 µF film capacitors, they are not expensive at all. If there is a better bass response after this modification, like it was in my case, one can later on invest a little bit more in a so called "audio grade" auri-, gold- or mystery cap. If the preamplifier where the Jolida is hooked on has already a DC blocking input cap one could remove the cap in the Jolida at all.

royphil345

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #35 on: 2 May 2010, 04:24 pm »
 I guess I'm gonna' have to give it a go and order some caps today. I would certainly always wonder now if I don't try it... lol. Do you happen to know the voltage rating on those caps, so I don't have to remove my Jolida from the rack, open it up and look right now? I guess it's not supposed to matter if you use a higher voltage rating with film caps? Any advantage to using a cap with a higher voltage rating than required?

SteveFord... I agree the Jolida doesn't really seem to need "more" bass. The balance seems pretty nice to me and the upper bass seemed to have a little more "kick" than with the solid-state phono stage I compared it to. I guess what I would hope for is just a touch more extension or definition in the lowest frequncies. The solid-state did seem to beat the Jolida in that department. Seemed to help keep the soundstage a bit more defined and stabile.

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #36 on: 2 May 2010, 07:57 pm »
i used Panasonic ECQ Series Metal Poly Fim caps because I already had them. 3,3µF/100V, they have the same size as the stock caps. There is no advantage using higher voltage caps, they are just getting bigger. I don't know how much the use of better quality caps would improve the sound. My experience with the expensive Mundorf (1µF) was a mixed bag, superb micro dynamics and resolution but lack of bass and too much treble. If there is no significant DC offset in the output, or if the amplifier is equipped with input coupling caps one could replace them with a wire bridge. I would have done so but my preamplifier is DC coupled.

royphil345

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #37 on: 2 May 2010, 08:50 pm »
i used Panasonic ECQ Series Metal Poly Fim caps because I already had them. 3,3µF/100V, they have the same size as the stock caps. There is no advantage using higher voltage caps, they are just getting bigger. I don't know how much the use of better quality caps would improve the sound. My experience with the expensive Mundorf (1µF) was a mixed bag, superb micro dynamics and resolution but lack of bass and too much treble. If there is no significant DC offset in the output, or if the amplifier is equipped with input coupling caps one could replace them with a wire bridge. I would have done so but my preamplifier is DC coupled.

I got antsy and looked while I was waiting for your reply. The stock caps are 250 volts, so I guess I'll stick with that. I'll order some 2 or 3uf... or possibly a few values...  maybe some extra 1uf in case I don't like the change but a slightly better quality 1uf makes a difference. I'll try to post some results and rips next week.

face

Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #38 on: 2 May 2010, 08:59 pm »
The change in bass is just the property of the Mundorf cap compared to the cap you're using now.

Replacing the 1uf cap with a 3.3uf cap shouldn't make any difference above 20hz.  If you were to use a smaller cap, then it could affect something in our audible hearing range.

FYI, Mundorf and Claritycap are designed for electronics, as well as speaker, hence the 630v rating.  If you're looking for something smooth on a budget, check out Auricaps or Obbligato.  Or check out V-cap Cu or Duelund Cu.

As for me, I'm happy with my Claritycap ESA.  I may swap it out for a extra pair of Claritycap MR's though. 

Dr. Ear

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Re: Jolida JD-9A phono amp hybrid Magic...
« Reply #39 on: 3 May 2010, 06:45 am »
The change in bass is just the property of the Mundorf cap compared to the cap you're using now. Replacing the 1uf cap with a 3.3uf cap shouldn't make any difference above 20hz.  If you were to use a smaller cap, then it could affect something in our audible hearing range.

Technically you're right. Maybe my preamp has an unusual input impedance. If you follow the thread there is another one who believed to hear some better bass with an higher value.