Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?

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Eduardo AAVM

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #80 on: 16 Jan 2018, 01:16 am »

Stagnant?   How old are you?   You must be quite young to say that.

We have great advances in audio today, even in average equipment, because of what audiophiles were demanding years ago...   
From amplification, to speakers, to improved interconnects and cables.

I have more or less the same thought, classic hard line audiophiles consume themselves into extinction, they are not open to grow, expand or to explore new paths, not very oftem, they are very attached to tradition depending the generation they belong. Big bulky, exotic CNC cases and nonsense characteristics are still very important for them.

I am 45, been somehow into audio Hi-Fi since I was 13 or so, 90s were great but many things have changed atop of them I consider enviromental and efficiency issues, raw material availability.

That's what I love of NuPrime and value oriented companies, for me they are the present and future of Hi-Fi/high end audio.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #81 on: 16 Jan 2018, 01:57 am »
That's what I love of NuPrime and value oriented companies, for me they are the present and future of Hi-Fi/high end audio.
Unfortunately I like tube amps, which is destined to become the golden egg hen of manufacturers and dealers in view of various current audio tubes manufacturers made a agreement to standardize audio tubes time life in 1000 hours only.

So Class D may be the only way viable to the average budged audiohile to get some decent music in home.

OzarkTom

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #82 on: 16 Jan 2018, 02:45 am »
Maybe we are dying off? 

Jazzman53

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #83 on: 16 Jan 2018, 02:47 am »
Maybe we are dying off?

I'm afraid you're right about that.

JLM

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #84 on: 16 Jan 2018, 01:01 pm »
Why? 

- We're snobbish in so many ways (budget, musical genre, brands, source formats)

- We're not open minded

- We're old and live in the past

- We hold on to old, fussy technologies that few under age 50 relate to (vinyl, tubes, separates)

Genez

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #85 on: 16 Jan 2018, 05:30 pm »
Why? 

- We're snobbish in so many ways (budget, musical genre, brands, source formats)

- We're not open minded

- We're old and live in the past

- We hold on to old, fussy technologies that few under age 50 relate to (vinyl, tubes, separates)

That may be true for some.  But those are really sheep audiophiles.  They do not think for themselves. 

That kind has conformed to a cult of thinking and became closed and locked in time .  A true audiophile is open minded and seeking even better than before. Many younger anti-audiophiles are just as closed minded and resentfully reactionary. 

Its become a battle like Muslims fighting Catholics.  Both are wrong... but both swear they are right.  A true audiophile takes long quiet walks into the audio field and pastures ... and remains open and and seeks for what is growing in the wild.  For in every generation we find brilliant designers and engineers who have been born amongst us.

Wind Chaser

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #86 on: 16 Jan 2018, 06:12 pm »
I think another reasons is most people aren’t inclined to simply sit in a chair and do nothing else but listen to music no matter how high the fidelity. The bulk of my listening is casual and background. Casual meaning I’m sitting in the sweet spot but preoccupied with something else, while background meaning I am away from the sweet spot. There’s little merit to having a high performance system if that’s the only way one listens to music, but I also feel the the state of today’s pop music has contributed to the lack of interest in this hobby.

bladesmith

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #87 on: 16 Jan 2018, 06:49 pm »
That might be the million dollar question.
I remember when a sit down meal was a family ritual. Now, its all a fast food lifestyle, these days.
Its not about quality, its about quantity these days.
So many distractions in life, so much complication.

 :scratch: 

stlrman

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #88 on: 16 Jan 2018, 07:16 pm »
I am going to agree with Windchaser. I sold my Vapor Audio Breeze because I could not sit in the sweet spot and listen to a whole album. I moved into home theater which I am delighted with. A 120 inch screen , Cheap Andrew Jones floor standers, a nice 10 inch Polk sub, and my wife , daughter are in heaven watching movies and Nelflix!!  Sure I'd like to own a nice 12 inch, but we are getting plenty of bass!

Also I think very good sound can be had with cheaper headphones these days. Maybe not amazing sound , but very good . I went from $ 1,000 iem's to $20 Avio headphones. I was thrilled with Avio sound!

Genez

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #89 on: 16 Jan 2018, 07:45 pm »



It all goes hand in hand with the "quality of life."   When a culture becomes dulled down, there goes the quality of the finer things in life.  Communication overload dulls us down.  Just like trying to eat a full box of candies makes our taste buds go blank after having too much.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #90 on: 16 Jan 2018, 08:09 pm »


It all goes hand in hand with the "quality of life."   When a culture becomes dulled down, there goes the quality of the finer things in life.  Communication overload dulls us down.  Just like trying to eat a full box of candies makes our taste buds go blank after having too much.
Correct, so usually audiophiles are urban people that are up to here w/the overloading silly news and news manipulations every day if you can sense the thread of the skein.

Being open mind implies being mind corrupted or at least enduring that process.

simoon

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #91 on: 16 Jan 2018, 11:08 pm »
less audiophiles hopefully means more music lovers .......... not a bad thing IMO

False dichotomy.

I believe that the vast majority of audiophiles are music lovers.

Most audiophiles I talk to (I belong to the Los Angeles, Orange County Audio Society, the largest such group in the world) state that they are into audio mainly because it allows them to get closer to the music.

But here's the rub. Even for those minority of audiophiles that are into the equipment more than the music, I am not sure what the big deal is. If it brings them joy, isn't that enough?

I am a music first audiophile. But on certain days, I can enjoy the hell out of just listening to the equipment. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
 

simoon

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #92 on: 16 Jan 2018, 11:39 pm »
Maybe we are dying off?


Some of the posts on this thread seem to be real USA centric.

I've watched many videos on YT of reports of audiophile shows in Munich, Warsaw, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and other European and Asian locations, and the people attending have a decidedly different look than in the US.

You see many more late 20's and early 30's people walking around. Many more complete families, or at least husbands and wifes.

The percentage of 50 year old +, males, listening to the "audiophile approved" female vocal recordings, are visibly lower than US audio shows.

rustydoglim

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #93 on: 19 Jan 2018, 08:08 pm »
Wow, I will add my 2cents.
This is a topic we manufacturers most concern with. 
Audiophiles/music lovers who are in their 50s are enjoying their audio hobby as high-end components are getting cheaper and better. Internet allows them to find a lot of good non pop musics. Those who are older are downsizing with all-in-one integrated amp.
These customers are keeping the few high-end manufacturers on "life support".  I kid you not.
Just look at the industry. Most audio brands have been bought and consolidated.  And if they are still around, just a shadow of their former self. How many high-end audio companies are truly investing in R&D instead of just packaging or customising off-the-shelf stuff?

I think the problems that drive high-end audio to the ground (lets be honest, high-end audio has been on life support for several years already) are well understood. There are enough blames to go around - greedy manufacturers and dealers, the trend, lots of expensive gadgets (my family spent thousands of $ on phones and tablets) to take your time away, easier to travel,  the music industry, lifestyle change (do families still gather in the living room after dinner?), and so on.

At some point a vicious cycle started to spiral out of control.  And here we are.
NuPrime is probably one of the last few (may be the only one left) high-end manufacturers still working on fundamental amplifier R&D (by the way, we just achieve a breakthrough but that's not the point here), and we have some tough decision to make. Do we just give up and focus on making premium < $1000 all-in-one and just go with the flow, until we get put out of our misery by some premium Amazon or Apple speaker, or we find a way out ?

We reached the following observations:
In some part of the world (Asia, Europe), high-end audio is down but not out. Younger consumers don't want to pay for insane prices but are starting to look for good sounding stereo components.  As the Millennials get older and into their 40s, their lifestyle will change, and some will start to pay attention to audio (again).  We are seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel, and this is what gives us hope.
But a lot of work lies ahead.
We have to spend a lot more effort on educating consumers about audio.
We have to continue to innovate and make our products even more affordable.
We are a tiny company. All we need is a small slice of a small premium audio market and we will be doing just fine.

rollo

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #94 on: 19 Jan 2018, 08:30 pm »
  Somewhat of a decline however nothing to dwell on. Exposure to product is what is needed. look at LP and TT sales. Ya see one in lots of TV commercials and movies now.
  In most Schools Music Appreciation class has been eliminated. That does not help. Music therapy is huge right now. Music for healing is getting more popular as well.
Financing of expensive systems should be made more available at a fair rate. Bring back Brand Stores. Hey I could see a Nuforce store.



charles

rustydoglim

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #95 on: 19 Jan 2018, 08:34 pm »
There is no way high-end business can support a store. The economic is just not there.
That's why most high-end audio retail store are out of business.  There is no going back.

twitch54

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #96 on: 19 Jan 2018, 08:50 pm »

I believe that the vast majority of audiophiles are music lovers.

to that I agree

Quote
Even for those minority of audiophiles that are into the equipment more than the music, I am not sure what the big deal is. If it brings them joy, isn't that enough?

sure, if it brings them joy, great ! But here's the other angle........the majority of the audio forums are there for discussion about equipment (all well and good) I merely point that out for there many folks that get more obsessed with the equipment discussion themselves than the joy said equipment can bring into ones music.

Quote
I am a music first audiophile. But on certain days, I can enjoy the hell out of just listening to the equipment. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

I get your point !

For the record, I'm a 64 year old 'music first audiophile' myself, I've done my job for my 39 year old son is one as well......nuff said !

milford3

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #97 on: 19 Jan 2018, 08:57 pm »
Another BIG reason why retail high end audio retail stores are out of the loop is the internet.  Just visit the web site, order, and it's shipped to your front door.  The buyer just needs to do a little of home work.

Freo-1

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #98 on: 19 Jan 2018, 09:02 pm »
Wow, I will add my 2cents.
This is a topic we manufacturers most concern with. 
Audiophiles/music lovers who are in their 50s are enjoying their audio hobby as high-end components are getting cheaper and better. Internet allows them to find a lot of good non pop musics. Those who are older are downsizing with all-in-one integrated amp.
These customers are keeping the few high-end manufacturers on "life support".  I kid you not.
Just look at the industry. Most audio brands have been bought and consolidated.  And if they are still around, just a shadow of their former self. How many high-end audio companies are truly investing in R&D instead of just packaging or customising off-the-shelf stuff?

I think the problems that drive high-end audio to the ground (lets be honest, high-end audio has been on life support for several years already) are well understood. There are enough blames to go around - greedy manufacturers and dealers, the trend, lots of expensive gadgets (my family spent thousands of $ on phones and tablets) to take your time away, easier to travel,  the music industry, lifestyle change (do families still gather in the living room after dinner?), and so on.

At some point a vicious cycle started to spiral out of control.  And here we are.
NuPrime is probably one of the last few (may be the only one left) high-end manufacturers still working on fundamental amplifier R&D (by the way, we just achieve a breakthrough but that's not the point here), and we have some tough decision to make. Do we just give up and focus on making premium < $1000 all-in-one and just go with the flow, until we get put out of our misery by some premium Amazon or Apple speaker, or we find a way out ?

We reached the following observations:
In some part of the world (Asia, Europe), high-end audio is down but not out. Younger consumers don't want to pay for insane prices but are starting to look for good sounding stereo components.  As the Millennials get older and into their 40s, their lifestyle will change, and some will start to pay attention to audio (again).  We are seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel, and this is what gives us hope.
But a lot of work lies ahead.
We have to spend a lot more effort on educating consumers about audio.
We have to continue to innovate and make our products even more affordable.
We are a tiny company. All we need is a small slice of a small premium audio market and we will be doing just fine.


Very interesting observations.  There is much validity in your points.


I think Devialet is one company that continues to push the envelope with R&D and product innovation.  There is no other product quite like the Expert/Expert Pro all in one units. Granted, you pay for this innovation, but the used market for their gear is more affordable from a high end aspect.


Mcintosh is another high end company that has managed to survive (despite some missteps in the past). 


The high end is a niche market, and will continue to be.  To me, the most reasonable means to get high end sound is to get a upscale portable Digital Audio Player (DAP), and a good pair of phones to go with the player.  The better Astell&Kern units can also act as a music server for home audio, as well as a excellent portable stereo device.


There used to be many more hobbyists in audio, in that there were more people who would build their own gear either from scratch or from kits.  Some of my most enjoyable listening still comes from homemade custom tube amps.  That just doesn't happen near as much today.   

Freo-1

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #99 on: 19 Jan 2018, 09:07 pm »
Another BIG reason why retail high end audio retail stores are out of the loop is the internet.  Just visit the web site, order, and it's shipped to your front door.  The buyer just needs to do a little of home work.


All true.  The internet has changed the business model dramatically.  The one big limitation on the internet is that one can't hear the prospective purchase over the net.  That requires an in person audition.