Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?

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Genez

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #60 on: 7 Jan 2018, 03:46 am »
Because audiophiles have remained stagnant while the world has changed.


Stagnant?   How old are you?   You must be quite young to say that.

We have great advances in audio today, even in average equipment, because of what audiophiles were demanding years ago...   
From amplification, to speakers, to improved interconnects and cables.

reillyzing

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #61 on: 7 Jan 2018, 04:30 am »
Um. Who dat?
Was not meant to be taken seriously..

I don't know that the number of people interested in hearing their music sound better has dwindled that much, but for those who listen predominantly to modern pop and rock, revealing speakers and amps won't make many of those mixes/mastering sound better.. The interest in achieving better sound is always going to be there, in my opinion, but record companies and current musicians are not making it possible because of their mixing and mastering choices.


neekomax

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #62 on: 7 Jan 2018, 05:45 am »
The narrator in the video that this discussion is supposed to be about never said that "new music is shit." The issue is the quality of the majority of stuff at the top of the charts these days. As the narrator stated and I think most of us would agree, there is still a lot of great music being made by many excellent artists. However, the music industry isn't taking any chances on losing money by promoting unfamiliar artists.  So, one has to get past the Billboard charts to find good stuff. That wasn't the case in the past, mass market tastes were more diversified and there wasn't the present reluctance we see on the part of major labels to invest in new artist R&D.

No one cares about Billboard charts or any other gate-keeper bullshit anymore. That's the whole point: The internet age is about the constructive (and yes, destructive) chaos of a world without gate keepers: Radio DJs, MTV, critics, charts, "mainstream" validation, stupid awards given by self congratulatory guilds of self proclaimed professionals, you name it, the internet age cares not about it.

What does it care about? Well, that's the good news. It cares about whatever niche thing you do. Don't care about rap, or think it sucks? Guess what, nor (so) do I! Fantastic. Let's hang out online and bond over what we DO like.

These days, there's not a second of my day that is disrupted by that which I deem undesirable, in good part thanks to the way I use the internet. And that freedom is available to us all. Hallelujah! You know when it wasn't? When I was 10 in 1985, and I relied on FM radio and MTV to grace me with whatever major label offering was shoveled my way in great abundance, 'round the clock.

The notion that we're not living in the most golden of ages, in which the sheer panoply of music and art and all kinds of great stuff - from today AND from the past - isn't happening is completely silly. Know what I'm saying?

And if people dig it on headphones, or bluetooth speakers, or $75,000 line arrays in purpose built 800 sq. ft. rooms (lucky them), who are we to judge?

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #63 on: 7 Jan 2018, 06:38 am »
...but for those who listen predominantly to modern pop and rock, revealing speakers and amps won't make many of those mixes/mastering sound better..

Although it does so in different ways than when compared to the effect of revealing gear on other more "audiophile" music genres, I would respectfully disagree with this statement.

Johnny2Bad

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #64 on: 7 Jan 2018, 09:33 am »
Answer: we're not. I was reading these same "doom and gloom" editorials when I was 14; I'm 60 now. It's never been a mainstream hobby, it never will be. Get over it. Nothing to see here, move along, folks.

JLM

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #65 on: 7 Jan 2018, 11:28 am »

I think you should take a peek over in the Head-Fi forum.  Serious Headophiles.  Nuprime is well known over there by the younger generation. Also,  many tube head amps are being listened with.  They discuss power cords and fuses, too.   

Headphones are the main thrust over there.... it seems to be where the younger audiophiles are heading while they are not able to yet afford a full system. Heck at their age we were buying Kenwood receivers and Advent speakers.  At least that is what I saw at that time.  It was the older folks buying the Nakamichis and the Luxman.

I did headphones while living in the dorms, made sense, but as soon as possible I was back to in-room listening.  Back then hi-fi was about the only cool high tech game in town.  Now disposable income can go to cell phones, AV systems, video games, and computers.

JLM

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #66 on: 7 Jan 2018, 11:37 am »
Fwer audiophiles because audiophile companies are putting themselves out of business.
Plus complexity.
Most of us are old(er). When we started a great stereo had a turntable, and speakers, and either a receiver/separate amp preamp. and a few free cables, or at most a few dollars worth of wire.
And you had a stereo.
Then Cd got added, then streaming
And add in wires,
Then all of our OWN bickering.
Anyone interested at all would read this stuff, look at the prices, and find some other hobby!

Also with the rise of gaming.. most young folks if they had a few hundred bucks, would spend it on a Playstation or XBox. And not on a stereo.
Though I agree headphones do seem to be the way to a future revival of audiophilia.. When all those young'ins get a house, and a real job.

You can still have in-room listening quality without breaking the bank (more so now than ever before, adjusted for inflation).  Example:  computer (given that we all have one); Meridian Explorer 2 ($200); RCA/XLR adaptors ($6); XLR cable ($15); JBL LSR305 speakers ($250/pair); Tidal ($20/month) = $471 + $20/month for access to 45 million tracks including MQA.  If your computer is a laptop, the entire system can be quite portable.  Or substitute Koss Porta Pro headphones ($50) for the adaptors, cable, and speakers for a nice, more portable headphone based system = $250 + $20/month.

JLM

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #67 on: 7 Jan 2018, 11:41 am »
Not in my book.

-1

Tital is Redbook/MQA quality.

Snobbery is one of the factors that turn folks off from hifi listening.  I made that mistake a year ago at a friend's place.  He brought me to his bedroom to show off his new AV system which consisted of a huge curved screen TV and a tiny 5.1 system with teeny wires and I told him exactly what I thought of it.  20 years ago I'd convinced him to buy very nice $400/pair speakers for his living room system and I was very disappointed. 

JLM

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #68 on: 7 Jan 2018, 11:46 am »
Was not meant to be taken seriously..

I don't know that the number of people interested in hearing their music sound better has dwindled that much, but for those who listen predominantly to modern pop and rock, revealing speakers and amps won't make many of those mixes/mastering sound better.. The interest in achieving better sound is always going to be there, in my opinion, but record companies and current musicians are not making it possible because of their mixing and mastering choices.

+1

The point of the video is that we've dumbed down modern pop music to the point that there's no point in having higher fidelity playback.

Photon46

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #69 on: 7 Jan 2018, 12:21 pm »
No one cares about Billboard charts or any other gate-keeper bullshit anymore. That's the whole point: The internet age is about the constructive (and yes, destructive) chaos of a world without gate keepers: Radio DJs, MTV, critics, charts, "mainstream" validation, stupid awards given by self congratulatory guilds of self proclaimed professionals, you name it, the internet age cares not about it.

What does it care about? Well, that's the good news. It cares about whatever niche thing you do. Don't care about rap, or think it sucks? Guess what, nor (so) do I! Fantastic. Let's hang out online and bond over what we DO like.


The notion that we're not living in the most golden of ages, in which the sheer panoply of music and art and all kinds of great stuff - from today AND from the past - isn't happening is completely silly. Know what I'm saying?

As with all things it seems, there are good things and less so good about this current state of affairs. First thing that strikes me as bad (from an artist's perspective) is is that a previous pathway towards earning a living, royalties from sales, has mostly disappeared from the equation because everyone now expects music to be free or nearly so. Live shows are the only way to earn a livelihood now and that gets old.

Recording technology has gotten a lot less expensive to get to a certain level of quality, but there's still no substitute for having the resources of a recording label, producer, and engineer behind an artist. As the video mentions, major labels just won't put resources into developing artists with unproven sales potential anymore.

As to "no one cares about gatekeepers anymore," that strikes me as only partially true. Those few that make it past the gatekeepers enjoy great wealth and the rest cater to their niche audience and struggle to survive. That has always been true but the qualities of those allowed through the gate now have been become more rigidly defined. Again, all this talk about the wonderful infinite choices of the digital age is spoken from the consumer's side of the equation. The constant fractionalization of markets for artistic product means it get's harder and harder to be a serious full time artist IMO. Whether we're talking about news, opinion, & information, music, or visual art - we can now find near infinite sources to cater to our personal perspectives and biases. Great for the individual but at the same time that variety diminishes the communal experience of societal togetherness. If we place the desires and wants of the individual first in our value hierarchy, that's great. If we suspect there may be worthwhile values other than individualism, there may be downsides to all this.

neekomax

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #70 on: 7 Jan 2018, 02:09 pm »
+1

The point of the video is that we've dumbed down modern pop music to the point that there's no point in having higher fidelity playback.

There's been terrible, 'dumbed down' pop since the '50s. Of course there's lots music worthy of higher fidelity playback. That it's not 'on the charts' or whatever there even is now is of little concern to me. 

And somebody brought up bass. Bass is relevant to the discussion. You know what has pretty unsatisfactory bass? Most recordings before 1965. I'll take most modern stuff with bass into the 30s, thank you very much. Sounds way better, and is more fun to listen to. YMMV.


neekomax

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #71 on: 7 Jan 2018, 02:16 pm »
As with all things it seems, there are good things and less so good about this current state of affairs. First thing that strikes me as bad (from an artist's perspective) is is that a previous pathway towards earning a living, royalties from sales, has mostly disappeared from the equation because everyone now expects music to be free or nearly so. Live shows are the only way to earn a livelihood now and that gets old.

Recording technology has gotten a lot less expensive to get to a certain level of quality, but there's still no substitute for having the resources of a recording label, producer, and engineer behind an artist. As the video mentions, major labels just won't put resources into developing artists with unproven sales potential anymore.

As to "no one cares about gatekeepers anymore," that strikes me as only partially true. Those few that make it past the gatekeepers enjoy great wealth and the rest cater to their niche audience and struggle to survive. That has always been true but the qualities of those allowed through the gate now have been become more rigidly defined. Again, all this talk about the wonderful infinite choices of the digital age is spoken from the consumer's side of the equation. The constant fractionalization of markets for artistic product means it get's harder and harder to be a serious full time artist IMO. Whether we're talking about news, opinion, & information, music, or visual art - we can now find near infinite sources to cater to our personal perspectives and biases. Great for the individual but at the same time that variety diminishes the communal experience of societal togetherness. If we place the desires and wants of the individual first in our value hierarchy, that's great. If we suspect there may be worthwhile values other than individualism, there may be downsides to all this.

These are good points, in general. I'm a musician who still gigs, but made my (modest) living for about a decade playing shows in my 20s. So I do consider both sides of the equation.

It is hard to be a full time artist, always has been, but with super cheap recording tech, crowdfunding and viral marketing replacing label support and more numerous record deals, it's just hard in a new and different way than it was.

Music ain't going nowhere. 

mfsoa

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #72 on: 7 Jan 2018, 02:29 pm »
Although it does so in different ways than when compared to the effect of revealing gear on other more "audiophile" music genres, I would respectfully disagree with this statement.

I agree with Jonathon. In many cases I find that music that sounded poor on less revealing equipment can sound much better on very revealing equipment, as things that used to be mushed and distorted together are now resolved and revealed to actually consist of valid musical information.

charmerci

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #73 on: 7 Jan 2018, 06:28 pm »

Snobbery is one of the factors that turn folks off from hifi listening.  I made that mistake a year ago at a friend's place.  He brought me to his bedroom to show off his new AV system which consisted of a huge curved screen TV and a tiny 5.1 system with teeny wires and I told him exactly what I thought of it.  20 years ago I'd convinced him to buy very nice $400/pair speakers for his living room system and I was very disappointed.

Maybe it wasn't your snobbery! Anyway, I hope this guy isn't your friend anymore!!!  :lol:

JohnR

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #74 on: 8 Jan 2018, 03:13 pm »
The notion that we're not living in the most golden of ages, in which the sheer panoply of music and art and all kinds of great stuff - from today AND from the past - isn't happening is completely silly. Know what I'm saying?

I do. I can't help working through old stuff on Tidal. I mean it's right there. Right now Speaking in Tongues. It scares when I look at the release date and see almost 35 years ago. Stuff I couldn't afford to buy when it was current. Now I've got it all.

OK not all. But a lot. Even the Beatles.


JohnR

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #75 on: 8 Jan 2018, 03:58 pm »
OK I'm listening to Sgt Peppers on Tidal....

......

What did I miss? Is this seriously the benchmark the guy in the video is talking about?

Wind Chaser

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #76 on: 8 Jan 2018, 07:08 pm »
OK I'm listening to Sgt Peppers on Tidal....

......

What did I miss? Is this seriously the benchmark the guy in the video is talking about?

With respect to timbre, I think he's speaking in terms of the music - not the recording.

He goes on to say that the vast majority of "pop" music of today merely consists of nothing more than electronic keyboards, drum machines, sampling and software.

twitch54

Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #77 on: 8 Jan 2018, 07:10 pm »
Are you saying audiophiles are not music lovers?   What is your concept of an audiophile?   NuPrime makes audiophile equipment. 


:scratch:   Did you watch the video????????

No, I'm just tired of stupid 'gear-o-philes' that are more interested in their flavor of the month.

Sorry, this is not a rant against you but I see way too many individuals that fit the description !

montesquieu

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #78 on: 15 Jan 2018, 10:59 pm »
Great thread. Who remembers these days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoPXQ9fotZM

FullRangeMan

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Re: Why do we seem to be seeing less audiophiles?
« Reply #79 on: 15 Jan 2018, 11:27 pm »
Because audiophiles have remained stagnant while the world has changed.
To be an audiophile is necessary an amount of audio equip knowledge not to mention electronics and music, current generation have none of this, most of today adult think MP3 is hi-fi since it is digital music in a fantastic phone in a fantastic ear-bud.