Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists

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cxmontg

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Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« on: 7 Sep 2017, 08:14 pm »
Long time lurker on AudioCircle.  However, I have recently obtained a completely custom Omega that I thought I would post some pictures and give some high praise. 

So hopefully I do this correctly as I have not posted any pictures in this forum in the past.

This project has been a long undertaking and it required the services of several other AudioCircle companies.  Obviously I need to thank Louis, but I also need a lot of credit and thanks to Dave at Zenwave Audio and Danny with GR Research.

Being a silly person who thinks they can do it all I "tried" to build my own speaker.  While my creation using some GR Research speakers and other components we good.  It was not capturing me the way I felt it should.  So I decided to go a different route.  So, based on the extremely high recommendation that Decware posted I did some research into the Omega speakers and decided to see if Louis would do some custom work for me.  He agreed and off we went.

 






So what Louis and I started with was an RS5 based High Output monitor.  I asked if Louis could incorporate some RAAL tweeters I had from my own built speaker and we decided to mount them up-firing.  I had recently purchased some Zenwave interconnect cables (which are freaking great) and wanted to get as much Zenwave into my system as possible.  So I had Dave and Louis connect and they worked out how much Zenwave to use as the harness for the internal speaker wire.  That is the Red wire hanging out of the driver opening.  The binding posts on the back are also from Zenwave.  I had Dave ship to Louis some Furutech binding posts.

Hopefully, this posts correctly as I have more to share.  In the end I am so pleased with how things have worked out and want everyone to see the fantastic work Louis did on a very unusual build.   




pstrisik

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #1 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:02 pm »
The custom stuff is fascinating.  I love what Louis can do.  He did a nice integration job for me with SAM's and Rythmik 8" woofers and plate amp in his cabinet:



I also have powered tweeters (SB Acoustics Satori beryllium dome) pointed upwards.  Powered by a Bantam Gold amp.  Simple first order high pass using a capacitor inside the tweeter box sitting on top.  I will assume your ribbon tweeter takes its signal from the main amp with a similar high pass that doesn't affect the main drivers (other than having the tweeters in parallel), yes?

Louis advised me the same about having the tweeters pointed up.  Adds high frequency "air" without significantly affecting the virtues of the single point source and its imaging.

......Peter


DaveC113

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #2 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:07 pm »
Nice! Good to actually see the speakers!  :thumb:

Let us know what you think of the sound too...  I am going to add a 2nd set of RS5 drivers to my S3 XRS soon.

cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #3 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:17 pm »
So now some of the real custom stuff Louis did for me.  As I mentioned I had some GR Research speakers.  These were incorporated into a OB sub set up. I wanted to keep these as the OB subs are so good.  I decided that I would have Louis build me some custom cabinets that I could drop the 8 inch servo subs into and then use them as the base for the monitors he built.














I will load up some final pictures of the complete set up and how I integrated the Rhythmic amps probably tomorrow.  Again, the final results I think came out fantastic.



cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #4 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:27 pm »
Thanks for responding Dave.

The final product is stunning.  I am beyond happy. 

For some additional information.  I am lucky enough to have a Modwright OPPO 105 that has dual outputs.  One set with the Modwright tube outputs goes full range to a Decware SET amp directly to the RS5 monitors.  So no crossover.  The second set of outputs sends another left/right channel output into a Mini DSP that controls the OB Sub crossover and can apply DSP for any room correction.  So best of both worlds.  This also allows me to control the outputs of the Subs in conjunction with the Monitors.  I tend to like some house curve with the added punch of the bass so with the Mini DSP I can control that really easily.

After I post the final pictures tomorrow I can go into more detail specific to the speakers.

 

cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #5 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:33 pm »
Peter, I should probably also give you some credit for my final implementation. 

It was your experience and the posts you made when I was researching the Omega speakers that pushed me into pulling the trigger (I mentioned I was a long time lurker).  After reviewing what you had done and how it fit almost exactly what equipment I had I could see the possibility.  So you need to be given credit for my final product.

 

DaveC113

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #6 on: 7 Sep 2017, 10:53 pm »
Thanks for responding Dave.

The final product is stunning.  I am beyond happy. 

For some additional information.  I am lucky enough to have a Modwright OPPO 105 that has dual outputs.  One set with the Modwright tube outputs goes full range to a Decware SET amp directly to the RS5 monitors.  So no crossover.  The second set of outputs sends another left/right channel output into a Mini DSP that controls the OB Sub crossover and can apply DSP for any room correction.  So best of both worlds.  This also allows me to control the outputs of the Subs in conjunction with the Monitors.  I tend to like some house curve with the added punch of the bass so with the Mini DSP I can control that really easily.

After I post the final pictures tomorrow I can go into more detail specific to the speakers.

My system is similar, I have a Danville DSP unit sending signal to Hypex NC500 mono amps for the woofers and a single cap on the mid and tweeter for xo, which is driven with a SET amp. It is indeed best of both worlds, full control of bass with an almost crossoverless mids/highs... using Jupiter copper foil caps I can say the xo has little impact on the sound.

The Danville DSP unit is amazing and has great specs but it's software capabilities far exceed anything needed for a hifi system. You need to learn Matlab and know advanced calculus to really take advantage of everything it can do!

Looking forward to more pics! 

RDavidson

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #7 on: 8 Sep 2017, 02:19 am »
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. I bet they sound fantastic. I'd be curious to know what the average impedance and sensitivity of the mains is. Do you know?

pstrisik

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #8 on: 8 Sep 2017, 02:50 am »
Peter, I should probably also give you some credit for my final implementation. 

It was your experience and the posts you made when I was researching the Omega speakers that pushed me into pulling the trigger (I mentioned I was a long time lurker).  After reviewing what you had done and how it fit almost exactly what equipment I had I could see the possibility.  So you need to be given credit for my final product.

Well thank you very much!   

Louis, I think it's commission time!      (kidding of course!)

Seriously, rather than credit for the final product, I'm glad to have provided some inspiration to getting you started.  You're making some bold moves as well and I bet you are rewarded!  I'm generally an introvert, but this situation has me processing out loud.  Through so many twists and turns this hobby has taken me.  Still doing some.  But the speakers are staying solid.  Seems I've been working everything else to serve the speakers, which makes them the center of my system, I guess. 


<Segue>

I've had DSP on my radar for a long time.  You make it seem easy.  I will likely take a look at them again.

........Peter

cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #9 on: 8 Sep 2017, 03:25 pm »
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. I bet they sound fantastic. I'd be curious to know what the average impedance and sensitivity of the mains is. Do you know?

It is hard to see in the photo but the one of the monitor with the Omega sticker on the back indicates 97db at 4-6 ohm.

nature boy

Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #10 on: 8 Sep 2017, 03:29 pm »
The custom stuff is fascinating.  I love what Louis can do.  He did a nice integration job for me with SAM's and Rythmik 8" woofers and plate amp in his cabinet:



I also have powered tweeters (SB Acoustics Satori beryllium dome) pointed upwards.  Powered by a Bantam Gold amp.  Simple first order high pass using a capacitor inside the tweeter box sitting on top.  I will assume your ribbon tweeter takes its signal from the main amp with a similar high pass that doesn't affect the main drivers (other than having the tweeters in parallel), yes?

Louis advised me the same about having the tweeters pointed up.  Adds high frequency "air" without significantly affecting the virtues of the single point source and its imaging.

......Peter

Very Nice :thumb:

NB

cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #11 on: 8 Sep 2017, 04:02 pm »
So to explain the lower sub cabinet in a little more detail I need to explain a bit of what I am doing.  My original speakers that I am swapping drivings with was an OB sub that connects to a Rhythmik amp.  So you can either find a way to mount the amp in the sub cabinet or you can create a separate amp box and connect via some wire.  I chose to use a separate amp box and use SpeakOn connectors on both the Amp and Sub end.

It is hard to see, but if you look close at this Sub picture Louis took you can see a hole in the bottom of the Sub.  That is where the SpeakOn mounting connector will go.





I fed the SpeakOn Connector from the Amp using a 45 degree angle connector.  It fits just right as I have lifted the Sub cabinet off the floor using some speaker stand outriggers.




The end result from the back looks like this.  I had Louis create a speaker grill that fits into the back opening of the cabinet.  He added some wood strips (back to the first picture) that you can just push in the grill and it fits flush to the opening.






Here is an image with the back grill cover removed.  I added some NoRez that I got from GR Research to help reduce cabinet resonances.




So what I ultimately ended with was this:














In a bit I will get more into how this set up sounds.  But I will just leave a short description; Awesome.



pstrisik

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #12 on: 8 Sep 2017, 04:56 pm »
Very, very nice!  Looking forward to your sound description.


cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #13 on: 8 Sep 2017, 06:45 pm »
As to performance.  I think most everyone who follows this circle has heard a large number of reviews of the RS5 based HO speakers.  This version is a bit different in that Louis widened the front baffle to 14 inches to match the bottom cabinet he was building for the 8 inch dual woofers.  So stacking the monitors on the sub cabinets provides a symmetrical look and stability.

I mentioned I use a lot of AudioCircle companies.  Between the monitor and Sub cabinets I am using Herbie Audio Labs Von Schweikert Special fat dots for module decoupling.  This uses four Big Fat Dots plus one Square Fat Dots per speaker.  They have some tackiness without being messy that keep the monitors very secure and appear to work well in decoupling the cabinets.

Behind the speakers are some GIK Alpha 6 bass panels with some diffraction plates.  I wanted to try and control some of the back wall influence - especially since the subs of open baffle.

As a mentioned earlier, for the bass I feed a signal into a Mini DSP 4x10 that controls level, crossover and room correction.  The Omega Monitors receive a direct RCA from a Decware Super Zen Triode so I am not altering the signal to the monitors at all.

After running many REW test signals I finally ended up here:




This is the Left/Right channel overlaid on each other.  As mentioned earlier I like a house curve and I have purposely tipped the bass region up about 5 db.  That is why between 20 - 200 the measured SPL is around 82 and 200 and above is around 77 db.

For just the bass region here is a view with no smoothing (sorry this picture is a bit blurry):




This resulting response in this image was helped out quite a bit by the GIK bass panels as there were a number of rather large dips most likely being generated by the back wall interference/cancellation.

So what does this all mean.

I am not sure if all of you know about OB sub response.  Well, I would describe it as super fast, no overhang, and finely defined.  Drums really sound like something hitting a drum head, not mushy.  Bass guitar you can hear the string being plucked.  When you add this with the Omega Monitors which are also super fast, very articulate and layered, the sound field that is generated is mesmerizing.

Now, I also added the RAAL tweeter.  In this set up it is a must add.  The extra reach the high end has is a perfect match with the now complete bottom end.  However, a word of warning.  Do not add this type of ambient tweeter if you are only running the Omega Monitors.  While the Omega do reach down below 100 hz, due to their size there just is not what I would call the OOMPH.  Adding the extra extension without the bass tips the presentation too much to the treble.  Louis has it correct, no extra tweeter is needed with just the monitor alone.

Some recent examples that may connect with some of you were striking to me.

One was with Pandora off the OPPO (which by the way is integrated extremely nice and sounds great.  They have somehow added the rear channels as ambience very similar to how Meridian did Trifield).

It was Fleetwood Mac's The Chain.  If you know this song it has some heavy drum and about 3/4 of the way into the song there is a solo bass section that leads into a drug progression.  That section with these speakers was so good.  You could hear each pluck of the bass and each drum strike and add into the harmonies on the vocals the Omega adds it sent shivers down my back.

The next example, was Pink Floyd's In the Flesh? off the Wall album.  I am going to steal for Wikipedia to help set up this song.  As with the other songs on The Wall, "In the Flesh" tells a segment of the story of Pink, the story's protagonist. This song marks the first of a series of songs in which Pink, in a drug-induced hallucination, believes himself to be a fascist dictator, crowing over his faithful audience; this particular song is his hallucination that his concerts can be likened to a political rally. He begins exhorting his fans to show their devotion to him by throwing undesirables such as "queers", Jews, and "coons", "up against the wall". He punctuates the end of the song with "If I had my way I'd have all of you shot!". The incited crowd then chant Pink's name as the song segues into "Run Like Hell".

The introduction of the song features an explosive organ sequence. Following this, the song then moves into a slightly quieter choir chorus, before the lyrical section. The end of the song features another organ sequence, and the song fades out to the chanting of "Pink! Floyd! Pink! Floyd!".

Not mentioned in this description is that each time they sing "up against the wall" there are tremendous drum strikes.  The dynamics of the Omega Monitors in the quite choral sections punctuated by the heavy heavy drum strikes is so good.

What I also find fascinating is that the noise level of this set up is super quite and black.  Now this is where I have to give Dave at Zenwave credit.  I have added several of his companies products into my system and with each addition background noise, hiss and all factor of AC influence have been greatly reduced.  Backgound noise, even with super effecient Omega speakers and the Decware SET amp, is remarkably low and when music is played the illusion is that sound emerges from Inky Black.  You have to put you ear right up to the drivers to hear any noise.  This is a testament to both Louis and Daves work.

The final thoughts I want to convey is these speakers are also fantastic in a home theather set up.  I have removed my center channel speaker and run Phantom and this set up works great.  Some may scoff but unless you are way off center you do not lose anything.  Now, add the subs into the equation you are get bliss.  I find movie theather soundtrack playback to be horrid when you go to the theather.  Way too loud and way to much bass (at least way too much muddy bass).  It hurts my hearing.  At home the explosive soundtracks do not hurt my hearing and with how fast the bass is now the reproduction of loud events have a more viseral feeling.  I can play very loud (even with a 2 watt SET amp) and the Omega's do not strain.  Every thing is crystal clear and the impact is crazy. 

An example of this was the last couple episodes of Game of Thrones.  When the zombie bear atacked in episode 6 it was so freaking real sounding and litterly had me jump out of my seat.  In episode 7, when the Night King took down the wall with the zombie dragon the impact was amazing.  So much good bass and extension.  The Omega's never strained and the bass was better than anything I have ever heard. 

Now I do have to add that I have another OB Sub (triple 12's from GR Research)  that adds the very bottom end so I am sure that plays a factor, but in total, this set up is everthing I have ever wanted and Louis' work helping me with this experience has resulted is something amazing (to me).

Chris





 

 


cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #14 on: 8 Sep 2017, 06:56 pm »
I should add as an addendum.  If you get good advice from good people, you cannot fail.


Chris

pstrisik

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #15 on: 8 Sep 2017, 11:41 pm »
Chris,

Sounds like you are in Audio Nirvana.  I reached that point where tweaking is more and more minor and feels largely optional, though that may be slipping as I have been dabbling in solid state with tube and SS preamps/amps as parallel amplification but using the same source and speakers.  I'm getting tempted towards a First Watt J2 after building the Nelson Pass design ACA kits with great results. 

You have got me curious about OB though.  I wonder if building a simple baffle and stand for the alnico and/or woofer and/or sub drivers would give me a good idea of how that would work.  Any opinion?  I could do that using these drivers without irreversible commitment as an experiment.  It seems cabinet design is not critical.  Just a way to suspend the drivers in a front baffle.  Maybe baffle size is relevant - have to research.

I'm also going to listen to "In the Flesh" tonight!  :D


cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #16 on: 9 Sep 2017, 03:26 pm »
Chris,

Sounds like you are in Audio Nirvana.  I reached that point where tweaking is more and more minor and feels largely optional, though that may be slipping as I have been dabbling in solid state with tube and SS preamps/amps as parallel amplification but using the same source and speakers.  I'm getting tempted towards a First Watt J2 after building the Nelson Pass design ACA kits with great results. 

You have got me curious about OB though.  I wonder if building a simple baffle and stand for the alnico and/or woofer and/or sub drivers would give me a good idea of how that would work.  Any opinion?  I could do that using these drivers without irreversible commitment as an experiment.  It seems cabinet design is not critical.  Just a way to suspend the drivers in a front baffle.  Maybe baffle size is relevant - have to research.

I'm also going to listen to "In the Flesh" tonight!  :D

interesting that you ask about the OB.  I tried that exact approach.  I was using Lowther PM6a drivers on a narrow baffle with the GR Research OB woofers.  While I would say it was very good, the full implementation just was too difficult for me to get it all correct.  If I had more expertise I suppose I could have done it, but with Louis help this solution is significantly better.

The RS5 drivers are a great match to servo OB woofers I am using in the sub cabinet.  Integration is seamless, and the speed of the drivers are more similar - but the woofers have to be servo type.  I would suggest if you are really interested go over to the GR Research circle they are the real experts about OB speakers and subs.

Louis and even Dave may add there expert opinion.  I am not kidding when I say good people and good advice and you will not go wrong.

Chris

cxmontg

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #17 on: 9 Sep 2017, 03:29 pm »
Chris,

Sounds like you are in Audio Nirvana.  I reached that point where tweaking is more and more minor and feels largely optional, though that may be slipping as I have been dabbling in solid state with tube and SS preamps/amps as parallel amplification but using the same source and speakers.  I'm getting tempted towards a First Watt J2 after building the Nelson Pass design ACA kits with great results. 

You have got me curious about OB though.  I wonder if building a simple baffle and stand for the alnico and/or woofer and/or sub drivers would give me a good idea of how that would work.  Any opinion?  I could do that using these drivers without irreversible commitment as an experiment.  It seems cabinet design is not critical.  Just a way to suspend the drivers in a front baffle.  Maybe baffle size is relevant - have to research.

I'm also going to listen to "In the Flesh" tonight!  :D

I should have added being a child of the 70-80's the Wall album was a must listen experience..


pstrisik

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #18 on: 9 Sep 2017, 06:23 pm »
I should have added being a child of the 70-80's the Wall album was a must listen experience..

I like The Wall, but since I'm a child of the 60's-70's, Dark Side of the Moon really does it for me!  :)


pstrisik

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Re: Omega Custom Shop HO with some twists
« Reply #19 on: 9 Sep 2017, 07:42 pm »
interesting that you ask about the OB.  I tried that exact approach.  I was using Lowther PM6a drivers on a narrow baffle with the GR Research OB woofers.  While I would say it was very good, the full implementation just was too difficult for me to get it all correct.  If I had more expertise I suppose I could have done it, but with Louis help this solution is significantly better.

The RS5 drivers are a great match to servo OB woofers I am using in the sub cabinet.  Integration is seamless, and the speed of the drivers are more similar - but the woofers have to be servo type.  I would suggest if you are really interested go over to the GR Research circle they are the real experts about OB speakers and subs.

Louis and even Dave may add there expert opinion.  I am not kidding when I say good people and good advice and you will not go wrong.

Chris

I read through this article on OB design by Darrel Hawthorne (Hawthorne Audio): http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0709/open_baffle.htm.  Makes the basic approach seem quite simple when going single driver.  I could see having single full range driver and the Rythmik 8" woofers (possibly the 12" from my F12's as well) on a baffle board, building small boxes to house the plate amp(s) sitting directly behind.  I guess I would go one step at a time using basic plywood.  If I found some arrangement that really worked for me, I would make it with better wood.

May not work, but these kind of projects are fun to do and learn from along the way.  I will check with the GR site.  I do have servo 8" and 12" from Rythmik.

.......Peter