[Paul McNeil]

The treble and midrange in my Maggie 1.7s has always been compellingly transparent but the sound a bit fatiguing. The bass, well no, never compelling. And, when I measured it using DSPeaker, it was a roller coaster ride below 80 htz, and a frightening one, in my very large and open downstairs space, no concrete, all high flex wood and drywall. This is with Krell amplification.

So I've been experimenting with subwoofers. Tried a small Rel 9, placed in the corner per manufacturers instructions. Better, but with no crossover (used high level connections suggested by Rel), there was some boomy, localizable poorly integrated bass from that corner, and, with organ and other bass-demanding music, an overwhelmed little guy cornered there.

Then some old guys, Kinergetics SW 100s, four of them, with Parasound Halo preamp crossover in place, better, but they bottomed out low down and were sloppy.

Now (and this is NOT a fair comparison with the above two subwoofer options, I realize), I have two new SVS Ultra 13 cylinders, one on each side 3 feet behind the Maggies. So far, I've kept upping the crossover point and I am now at 80hzt, because the sound kept improving. The tuneful bass I now hear has definition, extension and impact. No integration problems, likely because I have the two, right behind the Maggies.

Anyway, at this 80htz point the sound is great. An objective monitor, DSPeaker, measures bass flat from 10-80htz, but who cares. The music is no longer fatiguing, it has life. And I no longer think about installing one of those resistors, to tame the 'hot' tweeter (I tried this and found the sound boring).

Are these Maggie 1.7s really just mini-monitors, in large rooms? Am I wrong in thinking that they absolutely do require a subwoofer or two to get to full-range status?

[Davey]

The roller coaster ride below 80Hz is room/placement related effects.  The 1.7's themselves have a graceful high-pass behavior (just as many electro-mechanical devices) at the bottom end in free-field conditions.

Any speaker that doesn't extend to 20Hz is not a full-range speaker, but to say 1.7's absolutely require a sub-woofer is not correct.  Much depends upon the program material being played and the listening environment the speakers are placed in.  Mini-monitor?  Nah. 

Dave.

[Paul McNeil]

Dave, I agree, this may be my 'room problem', and one most prominent with bi-polar radiators 4 feet from one wall and 3 feet from another and 20 feet from the other in my large, open bottom-floor space. They are only mini-monitors in my space, because here the addition of subs makes all music so much better, not just organ. I don't have 'free-field' conditions, except on my back deck, and there's rain out there...!! The subs don't have a problem with this placement, says DSPeaker and my ears.

[Bendingwave]

The receivers Ive owned usually put the sub crossover standard setting at 80-100hz...and IMO seems to blend the sub with the speakers better then other crossover settings.

[Paul McNeil]

Yeah, same with mine, upstairs, but downstairs I'm dealing with a Parasound preamp, which does not offer microphone measured and computer recommended crossover settings. I'd be curious what a pre/pro receiver did recommend with the 1.7s....

[Paul McNeil]

My Magnepan 1.7s now produce a gorgeous, open and transparent sound that I can't stop listening to (with no more thoughts about resistors to tame tweeter, 1.5 years later...), whether vinyl or CD source. I'm talking about what I hear now with bass supplementation, from two SVS subwoofers, placed 3 ft directly behind the pair, with crossover at 80 htz. Yes, for most of the music I listen to, the Maggies do not have to operate true full-range, but that is not the point. My Maggies, in my room (and I suspect many others that seem to demand the 'resistor' treatment) really needed the bass supplementation that one expects of a mini-monitor, for the sound you want to stay up late listening to. If you are, like me, limited in Maggie placement in a living room, then optimizing real-world bass (and this seems to be the 'big' placement issue for independent Maggies, red flag?), may be an insuperable problem (and you may think of using the treble-limiting resistor, supplied, another red flag?). But I found, in my room, that one can enjoy, with accurate mid- to -low bass supplementation, the great middle to high range reproduction of the Maggies without the resistor.

I apologize for calling the 1.7s 'mini-monitors'. I just got carried away with my own (subwoofer-assisted) revelation!

[A_shah]

Interesting conversation, I have a  new ( purchased Last August 2016) Maggi's 1.7i ( with SR 20 fuses and custom made jumpers made with mogami cables in my main listening room  , I also purchased  a new  OPPO 203 UHD,( old OPPO died on me after 10 years !  presently run the Maggie's  with a Parasound integrated Halo ( and a Marantz SR 5005 that drives my center speaker and surround speakers in a 5.1 configuration  Since SVS has a very generous return Policy I used  SVS PB2000 for 45 days  and my old Polk P5W I than went ahead and purchased Dr. HSU VTF 15 MKII figured I would send it back after 30 days and  would be out of just shipping cost . The SVS PB 2000 was no Match !  VTF 15  is amazing probably WOW ! it sits in the corner and integrates  very well with the 1.7i but it is huge I wish  I could have two of them but then their is the WAF I just use the Radio Shack sound meter and the the Audyssey  room correction software  on my SR5005 to flatten the curve I enjoy mostly all genre of music 80 music 20 movies , recently ordered a Odyssey custom made stereo  Kismet in Stratos case hopefully it should be in the next few weeks as Klaus mentioned I may not need the Sub ?   I have the Parasound Halo SW output set at 40HZ , should I try 80 HZ for music ?

[Davey]

I'm not sure how a new Kismet amplifier would alleviate your preference for a sub-woofer.  Some type of Odyssey Audio magic imparted to the 1.7's? 

Anyways, your Parasound intergrated has second-order electrical crossover slopes so moving your crossover frequency an octave higher should certainly change your presentation.  It's difficult to say if this would improve your situation or not.  (Doesn't hurt to try.)

I tend to think that high-passing Maggie speakers is not preferable and they should be allowed to run full range and an external sub-woofer (if used) should just augment the natural roll-off of the main speakers.

Dave.

[Roger Gustavsson]

I think it is helpful to unburden the Magnepan from the large excursions that the lowest tuning frequences causes. It use to reduce the distorsion.

[A_shah]

I think it is helpful to unburden the Magnepan from the large excursions that the lowest tuning frequencies causes. It use to reduce the distorsion.

thank you ! No I am not a bass head I like the way my setup sounds right now as I prefer Clarity , Soundstage and like to "Feel" my bass not hear it ?
The reason for a new power amp. is that I felt the Parasound Halo is underpowered to deliver even at 4 Ohms to the 1.7i ( 240 watts at 4 Ohm)
I was looking at Bryston , Nelson Pass  and ultimately settled for Odyssey after talking to Klaus , saved me a lot of money considering that I was looking at a Nelson Pass integrated 250

[Davey]

I think it is helpful to unburden the Magnepan from the large excursions that the lowest tuning frequences causes. It use to reduce the distorsion.

Yeah, I'm well familiar with the benefits of high-passing the speakers.  However, in my opinion, it makes integrating the speakers with sub-woofers more challenging.  The distortion reduction is not that significant since the transducers themselves already have considerable mechanical restraint.

That said, if the system is going to be used a significant amount of time for HT, then I think it is preferable to high-pass the speakers.  There's no need to let the Maggie speakers attempt to reproduce dinosaur footsteps or silly explosions.

Dave.

[Paul McNeil]

The benefit of a suboofer:
1) The 1.7s are very placement sensitive when it comes to bass, but so is upper frequency-based imaging. How to reconcile the two, and how many options does one have in the real world.? I have only one acceptable place for my Maggies, four feet from a wall. Bass sucks there, imaging is great. My dual subwoofer addition fixes the bass. There is now warmth in the human voice, stunning instrumental bass reproduction...great music. The Maggies by themselves in my room, in my placement, could not do this themselves. I frankly doubt whether any amount of placement adjustment would get me to where I am now.
2) One's amp is greatly relieved of a current burden, always a good thing with these Maggies.

As for the negatives, integration is not a problem a) if the two subs are placed close to each Maggie; or 2) one has an equalization system that corrects for distance. Trying to integrate a distant (from mains) subwoofer without a distance/time correcting system (such as Audyessy; I use DSPeaker) is futile. I use both a) & b).

[nocrapman]

Room placement is key with maggies.
My 1.7s - they do well without the subs for music, but don't mind the help. For HT, subs are a must.
I am still playing with optimal sub configuration.

Treating the room (not always an option) is a pretty big bang for buck. I did that 2 yrs ago and have never looked back. No more brightness on  any tracks.

Bryston BP26/4Bsst2 seems to do the trick for me.

Happy listening!

[josh358]

A point that Wendell likes to make is that planar woofers have to be sized to a room. All other things being equal, a large planar in a small room will make too much bass, while a small planar in a large room will make too little. This is in addition to the variations that result from placement, etc. The idea of the DWM is that it can be used to increase the area of the bass driver as needed to match the speaker's radiating area to the room.

Another point he makes is that when Maggies sound too bright the problem is often weak midbass rather than too much treble, since it throws the overall balance of the speaker off . . . in general, if a speaker is deficient in bass, it will sound balanced only if it's deficient in treble, and vice-versa. Apparently, the brain is sensitive not just to flatness of response, but to overall balance.